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Dennis(R)

03.04.2009, 19:22
 

Information on Steve Adelewitz? (Announce)

I've been lurking for a bit, but just joined. Steven Adelewitz, posting here as Steve, pointed me at these forms a while back.

Unfortunately, Steve is missing. His Short Stop website is down, returning a "Content Blocked" error from AT&T Worldnet, emails go unanswered, and his home phone number in the Bronx, NY, has been disconnected.

A poster on the VDE mailing list found a reference to an SSDI death notice dated January 15th, 2009, with the place being Africa, yet I see a post here from him titled "vegi" dated February 1st, 2009.

With the agreement of VDE author Eric Meyer and VDE Mailing List Mommy Ben Cohen, I've created a Google Group to serve as VDE's new "home page", and the intent is to migrate the Topica list there as well. The new page is here:
http://groups.google.com/group/vde_editor/web/home-page

Meanwhile, has anyone heard from Steve recently? I'd dearly love to hear that rumors of his death are exaggerated, but *I* can't find him.

Thanks in advance!
______
Dennis

Rugxulo(R)

Homepage

Usono,
03.04.2009, 19:32

@ Dennis

Information on Steve Adelewitz? (VDE migration)

> I've been lurking for a bit, but just joined. Steven Adelewitz, posting
> here as Steve, pointed me at these forms a while back.
>
> Unfortunately, Steve is missing. His Short Stop website is down,
> returning a "Content Blocked" error from AT&T Worldnet, emails go
> unanswered, and his home phone number in the Bronx, NY, has been
> disconnected.

I also noticed that his pages were down and wanted to ask here (or e-mail him) but wasn't sure. Did you try his Gmail address too? (Yikes about phone being disconnected.)

> A poster on the VDE mailing list found a reference to an SSDI death notice
> dated January 15th, 2009, with the place being Africa, yet I see a post
> here from him titled "vegi" dated February 1st, 2009.

Where is a link to that? And what is SSDI? (Social Security Death Index???)

I thought he was in America, so why would he die in Africa??

> With the agreement of VDE author Eric Meyer and VDE Mailing List Mommy Ben
> Cohen, I've created a Google Group to serve as VDE's new "home page", and
> the intent is to migrate the Topica list there as well. The new page is
> here:
> http://groups.google.com/group/vde_editor/web/home-page

Okay, good to know.

> Meanwhile, has anyone heard from Steve recently? I'd dearly love to hear
> that rumors of his death are exaggerated, but *I* can't find him.

No, but I'll try e-mailing him at his Gmail account (which I know he liked using as I recommended it to him back in the day). I hope and pray he's still alive (obviously), but if not I pray he's at peace.

Dennis(R)

03.04.2009, 19:55

@ Rugxulo

Information on Steve Adelewitz? (VDE migration)

> I also noticed that his pages were down and wanted to ask here (or e-mail
> him) but wasn't sure. Did you try his Gmail address too?

Yes. I tried every email address I had for him, including Gmail. No response, and in a couple of cases it's been months...

> (Yikes about phone being disconnected.)

Indeed.

> > A poster on the VDE mailing list found a reference to an SSDI death
> > notice dated January 15th, 2009, with the place being Africa, yet I see a
> > post here from him titled "vegi" dated February 1st, 2009.
>
> Where is a link to that?

http://www.genealogybank.com/gbnk/ssdi/doc/ssdi/v1:1271A33F78317B98

The poster found it through a Genealogy web site.

> And what is SSDI? (Social Security Death Index???)

Something like that, I believe. The NYS Comptroller of the Currency also lists unclaimed funds for him from MetLife.

> I thought he was in America, so why would he die in Africa??

I have no idea. Neither does the poster who found the link. As far as I knew, he lived in the Bronx, a borough of New York City north of me. (I'm in Manhattan.)

> > With the agreement of VDE author Eric Meyer and VDE Mailing List Mommy
> > Ben Cohen, I've created a Google Group to serve as VDE's new "home page",
> > and the intent is to migrate the Topica list there as well. The new page
> > is here: http://groups.google.com/group/vde_editor/web/home-page
>
> Okay, good to know.

Thank you.

> > Meanwhile, has anyone heard from Steve recently? I'd dearly love to
> > hear that rumors of his death are exaggerated, but I can't find him.
>
> No, but I'll try e-mailing him at his Gmail account (which I know he liked
> using as I recommended it to him back in the day). I hope and pray he's
> still alive (obviously), but if not I pray he's at peace.

So do I.
______
Dennis

rr(R)

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
03.04.2009, 22:53

@ Dennis

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

> A poster on the VDE mailing list found a reference to an SSDI death notice
> dated January 15th, 2009, with the place being Africa, yet I see a post
> here from him titled "vegi" dated February 1st, 2009.

I'm sorry, but I have to correct you. Steve's "vegi" post is from January 2nd. Note the dots (no dashes or slashes) in "02.01.2009", which is a common date format in Germany and the Nordic countries. Steve last logged on to this forum on January 7th. :-(

Dennis(R)

03.04.2009, 23:07

@ rr

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

> > A poster on the VDE mailing list found a reference to an SSDI death
> > notice dated January 15th, 2009, with the place being Africa, yet I see
> > a post here from him titled "vegi" dated February 1st, 2009.
>
> I'm sorry, but I have to correct you. Steve's "vegi" post is from January
> 2nd. Note the dots (no dashes or slashes) in "02.01.2009", which is a
> common date format in Germany and the Nordic countries. Steve last logged
> on to this forum on January 7th. :-(

Thank you. I should have realized I was dealing with a date format that is different elsewhere.

The revised posting date at least doesn't clash with the reported death notice, as much as I wish it did. :-(
______
Dennis

rr(R)

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
03.04.2009, 23:11

@ Dennis

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

> The revised posting date at least doesn't clash with the reported death
> notice, as much as I wish it did. :-(

I wish, I have had better news.

Rugxulo(R)

Homepage

Usono,
04.04.2009, 01:53

@ Dennis

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

> With the agreement of VDE author Eric Meyer and VDE Mailing List Mommy Ben
> Cohen, I've created a Google Group to serve as VDE's new "home page", and
> the intent is to migrate the Topica list there as well. The new page is
> here:
> http://groups.google.com/group/vde_editor/web/home-page

Why such old versions of VBX? Here's the latest I know of:

vbx307.zip UTILTEXT VBX - Manfred's Little Box Painter v3.07 - Box drawing editor 296503 2008-03-31 19:52:51

So does this mean Eric still intends to update VDE?

(P.S. Your evidence is very sad, I don't know what to say. Rest in peace, Steve.)

Dennis(R)

04.04.2009, 02:25

@ Rugxulo

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

> > With the agreement of VDE author Eric Meyer and VDE Mailing List Mommy
> > Ben Cohen, I've created a Google Group to serve as VDE's new "home page",
> > and the intent is to migrate the Topica list there as well. The new page
> > is here:
> > http://groups.google.com/group/vde_editor/web/home-page
>
> Why such old versions of VBX? Here's the latest I know of:

> Manfred's Little Box Painter v3.07 - Box drawing editor 296503 2008-03-31
> 19:52:51

Manfred is on the VDE list and also sent me a link. I have it, and it's in the Group Files section. I just haven't updated the Home Page with a pointer yet.

(Google Groups is annoying for folks trying to create a page. I use Firefox, and normally have multiple tabs open, so I'll have the Home Page being edited in one tab, another tab open to the Files section to upload stuff to the group, and another open to Pages to create new pages for the site. Google sees all this simultaneous activity, concludes I might be a bot trying to spam or hack the site, and locks me out for a while.

I don't mind limitations designed to prevent hacking and spam, but it would be nice if they were actually documented somewhere. It's like getting a ticket from a police officer for speeding, but there are no speed limit signs posted anywhere, and the cop won't tell you what the limit is.)

> So does this mean Eric still intends to update VDE?

He makes minor changes once in a while. The most recent I recall was Automatic Formatting (^AF) in VDE 1.95.

> (P.S. Your evidence is very sad, I don't know what to say. Rest in peace,
> Steve.)

Sad indeed.

He made the DOS Freeware part of the site as portable as possible, and provided Zips of the HTML code and images used for folks who wanted to reproduce it locally. I sent them to a contact who hosts another site I help out with to see if he wants to try to put them up and restore at least that portion of ShortStop. The Mostly VDE and Mostly Pegasus Mail portions will take a bit more doing.

I'm digging around in the Waybak machine for a site snapshot that might become a base for an attempt to resurrect it. It was a labor of love on Steve's part and a valuable resource to the community. To honor his memory, I'm doing what I can to preserve it.

We'll see.
______
Dennis

Rugxulo(R)

Homepage

Usono,
04.04.2009, 17:01

@ Dennis

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

> (Google Groups is annoying for folks trying to create a page. I use
> Firefox, and normally have multiple tabs open, so I'll have the Home Page
> being edited in one tab, another tab open to the Files section to upload
> stuff to the group, and another open to Pages to create new pages for the
> site. Google sees all this simultaneous activity, concludes I might be a
> bot trying to spam or hack the site, and locks me out for a while.
>
> I don't mind limitations designed to prevent hacking and spam, but it
> would be nice if they were actually documented somewhere. It's like
> getting a ticket from a police officer for speeding, but there are no
> speed limit signs posted anywhere, and the cop won't tell you what the
> limit is.)

I use Gmail and Google Pages a lot, too. Yes, you can't send .ZIPs with .BAT or .EXE (which I think is dumb). Also, recently Firefox 3 stopped working for a while with Google Pages (!) although IE7 (which I never use) worked fine. Finally they fixed that. I don't know if that's due to them switching things over to Sites (whatever that is) or what. Maybe it was Firefox's fault, who knows. But it's okay now. But yeah, I guess they have glitches like anyone else.

> > So does this mean Eric still intends to update VDE?
>
> He makes minor changes once in a while. The most recent I recall was
> Automatic Formatting (^AF) in VDE 1.95.

Well, that was 1 1/2 years ago. I know, not that long, just with DOS these days you can never tell when some things are abandoned or not. ;-)

> > (P.S. Your evidence is very sad, I don't know what to say. Rest in
> peace,
> > Steve.)
>
> Sad indeed.
>
> He made the DOS Freeware part of the site as portable as possible, and
> provided Zips of the HTML code and images used for folks who wanted to
> reproduce it locally. I sent them to a contact who hosts another site I
> help out with to see if he wants to try to put them up and restore at
> least that portion of ShortStop. The Mostly VDE and Mostly Pegasus Mail
> portions will take a bit more doing.
>
> I'm digging around in the Waybak machine for a site snapshot that might
> become a base for an attempt to resurrect it. It was a labor of love on
> Steve's part and a valuable resource to the community. To honor his
> memory, I'm doing what I can to preserve it.
>
> We'll see.

BTW, beware that WayBack truncates files by one byte, which is annoying.

You're on texteditors.org , right? Steve used the Freeware DOS pages as an excuse to test out a lot of text editors, esp. HTML support. I also have a passion for trying text editors (as my recent post on comp.os.msdos.djgpp shows). I have some comparison notes about various DOS editors that I've been making for a while now, might post it online fairly soon just for laughs.

Dennis(R)

04.04.2009, 18:20

@ Rugxulo

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

> I use Gmail and Google Pages a lot, too. Yes, you can't send .ZIPs with
> .BAT or .EXE (which I think is dumb).

Not just .BAT or .EXE. I had it reject an archive full of HTML files. I gather the reasoning is that a user might click on the archive in mail, open it, then click on and execute an HTML file in the browser which might do Bad Things. Yet I believe they let Word and Excel files through, apparently assuming that the current version's warning about macro code will keep users from triggering a malicious macro.

They also won't accept any archive formats except Zip. I gather that's because their software can't peek inside the archive to see the contents. A case in point is RAR files. Public domain code to open and extract RAR files exists, and RAR's author reportedly offered to assist GMail's engineers in integrating it into their code but was turned down.

I love GMail, and use it as my primary email account, but the ban on executables in attachments is a major annoyance. I have to resort to my Yahoo account or my ISP account to send/receive them.

> Also, recently Firefox 3 stopped working for a while with Google Pages (!)

<blink> What time frame was that? It's been working fine for me, but then, I just started using it to create/maintain Google Pages.

> although IE7 (which I never use) worked fine. Finally they fixed that. I
> don't know if that's due to them> switching things over to Sites (whatever > that is) or what. Maybe it was> Firefox's fault, who knows. But it's okay
> now. But yeah, I guess they have glitches like anyone else.

They do, and I expect glitches. My big complaint is that if you have limits on things, they should be clearly documented. Tell me what you think is an executable you'll reject in email. Tell me what triggers your assumption I might be a bot and blocks access to my Google Pages.

If I know what not to do, I won't do it.

> > > So does this mean Eric still intends to update VDE?
> >
> > He makes minor changes once in a while. The most recent I recall was
> > Automatic Formatting (^AF) in VDE 1.95.
>
> Well, that was 1 1/2 years ago. I know, not that long, just with DOS these
> days you can never tell when some things are abandoned or not. ;-)

There might be another update soon. A user just complained that he still uses 1.93a because 1.94 broke a macro and it never terminates. Eric said "Wow! I wish you had told me about this before." 1.94 made a change that required a CR terminating the last line of a file, and that broke a search/replace function the user was using. Eric had never tried to do that particular operation, and wasn't aware his change would break things. He's looking into a fix.

> > He made the DOS Freeware part of the site as portable as possible, and
> > provided Zips of the HTML code and images used for folks who wanted to
> > reproduce it locally. I sent them to a contact who hosts another site
> > I help out with to see if he wants to try to put them up and restore at
> > least that portion of ShortStop. The Mostly VDE and Mostly Pegasus
> > Mail portions will take a bit more doing.
> >
> > I'm digging around in the Waybak machine for a site snapshot that might
> > become a base for an attempt to resurrect it. It was a labor of love on
> > Steve's part and a valuable resource to the community. To honor his
> > memory, I'm doing what I can to preserve it.
> >
> > We'll see.
>
> BTW, beware that WayBack truncates files by one byte, which is annoying.

I've successfully recovered some no longer available files from Waybak. I wonder if this is a recent change?

> You're on texteditors.org , right?

I'm all over it. :-D

> Steve used the Freeware DOS pages as an excuse to test out a lot of text
> editors, esp. HTML support. I also have a passion for trying text editors
> (as my recent post on comp.os.msdos.djgpp shows).

I don't read that group. So many newsgroups. So little time...

> I have some comparison notes about various DOS editors that I've
> been making for a while now, might post it online fairly soon just for
> laughs.

I'd like to see it. Feel free to add it to TextEditors.org. It's the sort of thing the site was made for.

I collect editors, and have in excess of one hundred for various platforms.

One Windows, I use Notepad++ for most things. On Unix/Linux, I use vi/vim, though I use Emacs on occasion, and I'm becoming fond of Geany in X sessions under Linux.

The first real text editor I used was a third-party replacement for TSO/SPF on IBM mainframes back in the late 70's. It had some neat features, and when the shop switched to real TSO/SPF, I thought it was a step backward. 3270 block mode terminals have a completely different concept of full-screen editing than PC users are used to. :-P
______
Dennis

Khusraw(R)

E-mail

Bucharest, Romania,
04.04.2009, 19:28

@ Dennis

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

I'm very sad to know such a thing :-(.

Rugxulo(R)

Homepage

Usono,
04.04.2009, 20:30

@ Dennis

text editors (in memory of Steve)

> Not just .BAT or .EXE. I had it reject an archive full of HTML files. I
> gather the reasoning is that a user might click on the archive in mail,
> open it, then click on and execute an HTML file in the browser which might
> do Bad Things. Yet I believe they let Word and Excel files through,
> apparently assuming that the current version's warning about macro code
> will keep users from triggering a malicious macro.

I can only assume the system (e.g. Gmail) is abused heavily for spam and viruses and such, esp. since it's freely available. Otherwise, I don't think Google would be foolish enough to be so overly paranoid.

> They also won't accept any archive formats except Zip. I gather that's
> because their software can't peek inside the archive to see the contents.
> A case in point is RAR files. Public domain code to open and extract RAR
> files exists, and RAR's author reportedly offered to assist GMail's
> engineers in integrating it into their code but was turned down.

I've sent .7z and .lzh and .tbz files before but not recently. I do remember that even .ZIPs inside .ZIPs with .EXEs, .COMs, or .BATs aren't accepted. Recently, somebody e-mailed me a .ZIP renamed to .PIZ to avoid the issue, so that's a good workaround if you need it (until they block that too, heh). ;-)

> I love GMail, and use it as my primary email account, but the ban on
> executables in attachments is a major annoyance. I have to resort to my
> Yahoo account or my ISP account to send/receive them.

The problem with Yahoo! is that, IIRC, attachments are limited to 10 MB (instead of 20 MB for Gmail). And I'm not sure if that's before or after the base64 encoding. Blah.

> > Also, recently Firefox 3 stopped working for a while with Google Pages
> (!)
>
> <blink> What time frame was that? It's been working fine for me, but
> then, I just started using it to create/maintain Google Pages.

This was in the past month. But it works now, or at least the last two or three times I tried. As mentioned, this may be why:


> We are no longer accepting new sign-ups for Page Creator because
> we have shifted our focus to developing Google Sites.
...
> If you are currently a Page Creator user, you can continue to use
> Page Creator and your pages will automatically be transitioned to
> Google Sites later this year. We are committed to making this
> transition as smooth and easy as possible, and we will post more
> details as we get closer to the transition time.


> > But yeah, I guess they have glitches like anyone else.
>
> They do, and I expect glitches. My big complaint is that if you have
> limits on things, they should be clearly documented. Tell me what you
> think is an executable you'll reject in email. Tell me what triggers your
> assumption I might be a bot and blocks access to my Google Pages.

Yeah, they've given me the bogus "please enter captcha" just for posting on Google Groups a few times, which is odd. Who knows, maybe somebody didn't like something I said (unlikely but possible).

> > Well, that was 1 1/2 years ago. I know, not that long, just with DOS
> these
> > days you can never tell when some things are abandoned or not. ;-)
>
> There might be another update soon. A user just complained that he still
> uses 1.93a because 1.94 broke a macro and it never terminates. Eric said
> "Wow! I wish you had told me about this before." 1.94 made a change that
> required a CR terminating the last line of a file, and that broke a
> search/replace function the user was using. Eric had never tried to do
> that particular operation, and wasn't aware his change would break things.
> He's looking into a fix.

TDE 5.2 is supposedly in beta also (although I haven't seen or tested it). There was actually a (very) tiny patch for 5.1v, but it only affected me since it was found via some stupid macro I wrote. (See TDE51V.TXT although that's not the macro, only how to recompile with the fix. All the macro does is overlay F4 [save+quit] to change the ASCII timestamp via regex s/r in the file if found.)

> > BTW, beware that WayBack truncates files by one byte, which is
> annoying.
>
> I've successfully recovered some no longer available files from Waybak. I
> wonder if this is a recent change?

I don't know. Maybe it only affects older pages and files. They maybe fixed that bug a few years back so maybe your files aren't affected.

> > You're on texteditors.org , right?
>
> I'm all over it. :-D

I've read there various times over the past few years. I don't remember if I ever contributed anything (still haven't told you about e3's final version 2.7.1, see new homepage [down??] and binaries, which I had to manually build since no longer pre-included). For the record, my obsession is 99% with DOS-oriented stuff (in case it wasn't obvious). :-D

> > Steve used the Freeware DOS pages as an excuse to test out a lot of text
>
> > editors, esp. HTML support. I also have a passion for trying text
> editors
> > (as my recent post on comp.os.msdos.djgpp shows).
>
> I don't read that group. So many newsgroups. So little time...

Well, there's nothing majorly useful there in that one or two threads, esp. since I've mentioned GNU Emacs here (as you've noticed). The only other interesting thing was my weak attempt at a survey of users' favorite(s).

> > I have some comparison notes about various DOS editors that I've
> > been making for a while now, might post it online fairly soon just for
> > laughs.
>
> I'd like to see it. Feel free to add it to TextEditors.org. It's the
> sort of thing the site was made for.

I'll dig it up for you, but I'm not sure how it would fit into the setup of TextEditors. (It's mostly just a huge bunch of comments in a .BAT file.)

> I collect editors, and have in excess of one hundred for various
> platforms.

I obviously collect quiet a few myself. Maybe not quite that many, but enough to keep me busy. ;-)

> One Windows, I use Notepad++ for most things. On Unix/Linux, I use
> vi/vim, though I use Emacs on occasion, and I'm becoming fond of Geany in
> X sessions under Linux.

As you may know, TDE works on DOS (16-bit or 32-bit), Win32 console, and Linux w/ ncurses. Not that I ever use Linux much, and it never comes default so I built my own binary (which I always forget to use). Vim-tiny seems default on most GNU/Linux distros (although gNewSense includes GNU Emacs, thankfully).

> The first real text editor I used was a third-party replacement for
> TSO/SPF on IBM mainframes back in the late 70's. It had some neat
> features, and when the shop switched to real TSO/SPF, I thought it was a
> step backward. 3270 block mode terminals have a completely different
> concept of full-screen editing than PC users are used to. :-P

That predates me a bit. :-)) But I imagine you mean something like Forth block editors (or not, who knows, EDT? heh).

sol(R)

05.04.2009, 02:20

@ Rugxulo

text editors (in memory of Steve)

This is rather creepy :/

Dennis(R)

05.04.2009, 16:40

@ Rugxulo

text editors (in memory of Steve)

> > Not just .BAT or .EXE. I had it reject an archive full of HTML files. > I
>
> I can only assume the system (e.g. Gmail) is abused heavily for spam and
> viruses and such, esp. since it's freely available. Otherwise, I don't
> think Google would be foolish enough to be so overly paranoid.

GMail is certainly abused by spammers. I'm an admin on a web board that gets ten or twenty attempted spammer signups a day, and 2/3s to 3/4s of them give GMail addresses. I remember the days when Hotmail was so heavily used by spammers a lot of folks automatically deleted anything from a Hotmail address assuming it was spam. GMail might just receive that dubious honor at some point.

> I've sent .7z and .lzh and .tbz files before but not recently. I do

Hmmmm. I'll have to try that.

> remember that even .ZIPs inside .ZIPs with .EXEs, .COMs, or .BATs aren't
> accepted. Recently, somebody e-mailed me a .ZIP renamed to .PIZ to avoid
> the issue, so that's a good workaround if you need it (until they block
> that too, heh). ;-)

I've done the "rename EXE to XEX" bit, but it's a PITA for the recipient.

> The problem with Yahoo! is that, IIRC, attachments are limited to 10 MB
> (instead of 20 MB for Gmail). And I'm not sure if that's before or after
> the base64 encoding. Blah.

That doesn't concern me. A lot of email servers out there have even lower limits. I try to make sure the recipient can receive the files I attach. GMail is at the high end allowing 20MB. Most don't.

> This was in the past month. But it works now, or at least the last two or
> three times I tried. As mentioned, this may be why:
>
> > We are no longer accepting new sign-ups for Page Creator because
> > we have shifted our focus to developing Google Sites.

Okay. I'm not current on Google Sites. Have to po0ke around a bit.

> Yeah, they've given me the bogus "please enter captcha" just for posting
> on Google Groups a few times, which is odd. Who knows, maybe somebody
> didn't like something I said (unlikely but possible).

Highly unlikely. You were posting via the web interface? I own another Group where all the posting is via email. I've never heard a problem report.

> TDE 5.2 is supposedly in beta also (although I haven't seen or tested it).

Cool!

> > > You're on texteditors.org , right?
> >
> > I'm all over it. :-D
>
> I've read there various times over the past few years. I don't remember if
> I ever contributed anything (still haven't told you about
> e3's final
> version 2.7.1, see new
> homepage [down??] and
> binaries, which I
> had to manually build since no longer pre-included). For the record, my
> obsession is 99% with DOS-oriented stuff (in case it wasn't obvious). :-D

Ah. Thanks for the new e3. I have it here, because I collect tiny editors.

It's also used in Puppy Linx. That distro wants to keep the ISO size under 100MB, and does various things to save space. e3 is linked as vi.

> > > I have some comparison notes about various DOS editors that I've
> > > been making for a while now, might post it online fairly soon just
> > > for laughs.
> >
> > I'd like to see it. Feel free to add it to TextEditors.org. It's the
> > sort of thing the site was made for.
>
> I'll dig it up for you, but I'm not sure how it would fit into the setup
> of TextEditors. (It's mostly just a huge bunch of comments in a .BAT
> file.)

Send it along, and I'll see about editing for format.

> > One Windows, I use Notepad++ for most things. On Unix/Linux, I use
> > vi/vim, though I use Emacs on occasion, and I'm becoming fond of Geany
> > in X sessions under Linux.
>
> As you may know, TDE works on DOS (16-bit or 32-bit), Win32 console, and
> Linux w/ ncurses. Not that I ever use Linux much, and it never comes
> default so I built my own binary (which I always forget to use). Vim-tiny
> seems default on most GNU/Linux distros (although gNewSense includes GNU
> Emacs, thankfully).

Yes, I have and use TDE under Win32 console. Haven't moved it to Linux yet.

> > The first real text editor I used was a third-party replacement for
> > TSO/SPF on IBM mainframes back in the late 70's. It had some neat
> > features, and when the shop switched to real TSO/SPF, I thought it was
> > a step backward. 3270 block mode terminals have a completely different
> > concept of full-screen editing than PC users are used to. :-P
>
> That predates me a bit. :-)) But I imagine you mean something like
> Forth block editors (or not, who knows, EDT? heh).

Neither.

3270 terminals were block mode, not character mode. In normal editing on character mode terminals, each char you type is sent is sent immediately to the host.

On a block mode terminal, when you were editing, you could move around the screen and change things, but that all happened locally. When you hit Enter (might have been called Submit or something), the entire screen was sent to the host.
______
Dennis

Rugxulo(R)

Homepage

Usono,
06.04.2009, 00:04

@ Dennis

text editors (in memory of Steve)

> > The problem with Yahoo! is that, IIRC, attachments are limited to 10 MB
> > (instead of 20 MB for Gmail). And I'm not sure if that's before or
> after
> > the base64 encoding. Blah.
>
> That doesn't concern me. A lot of email servers out there have even lower
> limits. I try to make sure the recipient can receive the files I
> attach. GMail is at the high end allowing 20MB. Most don't.

Yes, I know, and it's not like I ever send many file attachments anyways, just something to be aware of. I think the bottom of the rung (no offense to anybody, it's just usually pretty arbitrary what limits you have on computer software) is 1 MB attachments max. That's why I usually ask before sending attachments although most people don't mind anyways.

> > Yeah, they've given me the bogus "please enter captcha" just for
> posting
> > on Google Groups a few times, which is odd. Who knows, maybe somebody
> > didn't like something I said (unlikely but possible).
>
> Highly unlikely. You were posting via the web interface? I own
> another Group where all the posting is via email. I've never heard a
> problem report.

Sometimes I use Opera, which isn't fully supported there, and sometimes I use Firefox 3, which you'd think would work perfectly, but alas ....

> > I've read there various times over the past few years. I don't remember
> if
> > I ever contributed anything (still haven't told you about
> > e3's final
> > version 2.7.1, see new
> > homepage [down??] and
> > binaries, which I
> > had to manually build since no longer pre-included). For the record, my
> > obsession is 99% with DOS-oriented stuff (in case it wasn't obvious).
> :-D
>
> Ah. Thanks for the new e3. I have it here, because I collect tiny
> editors.

The e3 site (if you can call it that, only two links) is back up now. I meant to also point you to sources on my site "just in case", so here: e3-271.tgz. I don't think e3 will be maintained anymore, sadly. The 16-bit DOS version is pretty crappy, though (if I am allowed to say that without offending the author, heh): 32k file limit, not *nix LF friendly. IIRC, I probably mentioned on texteditors.org about using HXRT with the Win9x version (which WinXP and friends don't run correctly at all, go figure!). Still, just like FASM, e3 is cool because it's portable to so many OSes.

> It's also used in Puppy Linux. That distro wants to keep the ISO size
> under 100MB, and does various things to save space. e3 is linked as vi.

I assume XVI would be a better fit (still small but useful). Some others I've seen use an older version of Elvis, which is relatively small too. And, as mentioned, most GNU/Linux distros include Vim-tiny. Heck, JED is a very good Emacs clone and can emulate vi too (while not barely topping 2 MB unpacked for the DOS port). Not bad, if you ask me.

> > > > I have some comparison notes about various DOS editors that I've
> > > > been making for a while now, might post it online fairly soon just
> > > > for laughs.
> > >
> > > I'd like to see it. Feel free to add it to TextEditors.org. It's
> > > the sort of thing the site was made for.
> >
> > I'll dig it up for you, but I'm not sure how it would fit into the
> > setup of TextEditors. (It's mostly just a huge bunch of comments
> > in a .BAT file.)
>
> Send it along, and I'll see about editing for format.

I'll take a quick look later tonight and try uploading it tomorrow.

> > > One Windows, I use Notepad++ for most things. On Unix/Linux, I use
> > > vi/vim, though I use Emacs on occasion, and I'm becoming fond of
> > > Geany in X sessions under Linux.

Mousepad, Beaver, Ted, Kate, mc's editor, Nano, etc. seem to be popular on Linux. BTW, do I remember incorrectly, or is Notepad++ the #1 Sourceforge project now?

> > As you may know, TDE works on DOS (16-bit or 32-bit), Win32 console,
> and
> > Linux w/ ncurses. Not that I ever use Linux much, and it never comes
> > default so I built my own binary (which I always forget to use).
> Vim-tiny
> > seems default on most GNU/Linux distros (although gNewSense includes
> GNU
> > Emacs, thankfully).
>
> Yes, I have and use TDE under Win32 console. Haven't moved it to Linux
> yet.

If you have libncurses-dev, you can build it yourself (although not all distros have that).

> > That predates me a bit. :-)) But I imagine you mean something like
> > Forth block editors (or not, who knows, EDT? heh).
>
> Neither.
>
> 3270 terminals were block mode, not character mode. In normal editing on
> character mode terminals, each char you type is sent is sent immediately
> to the host.
>
> On a block mode terminal, when you were editing, you could move around the
> screen and change things, but that all happened locally. When you hit
> Enter (might have been called Submit or something), the entire
> screen was sent to the host.

Wacky. But that sounds like something I've read before too. It's almost like when I read Bill Joy say, "vi was a product of the times, not really needed anymore" (e.g. fast screen updates remotely over terminal or whatever). But obviously almost nobody uses vanilla vi, only the extended variants (mostly Elvis or VILE or VIM, especially VIM, the topic for 99% of posts on news://comp.editors !!).

Dennis(R)

06.04.2009, 04:22

@ Rugxulo

text editors (in memory of Steve)

> > > The problem with Yahoo! is that, IIRC, attachments are limited to 10
> > > MB (instead of 20 MB for Gmail).
> >
> > That doesn't concern me. A lot of email servers out there have even
> > lower limits. I try to make sure the recipient can receive the
> > files I attach. GMail is at the high end allowing 20MB. Most don't.
>
> Yes, I know, and it's not like I ever send many file attachments anyways,
> just something to be aware of. I think the bottom of the rung (no offense
> to anybody, it's just usually pretty arbitrary what limits you have on
> computer software) is 1 MB attachments max. That's why I usually ask
> before sending attachments although most people don't mind anyways.

I used to have all sorts of problems with users blithely attaching files in email with no clue about how large they actually were, then wondering what happened when it didn't go through. I once had a user attach a 30MB file in email to a remote office. What she didn't know was that that office's connection was via a 33.6 modem. I had to kill the transfer at the mail server, then explain the facts of email life to her.

> > Ah. Thanks for the new e3. I have it here, because I collect tiny
> > editors.
>
> The e3 site (if you can call it that, only two links) is back up now. I

I don't believe that one was ever down. The site I meant was http://www.sax.de/~adlibit/, which is "up", but returns a blank screen when accessed.

> meant to also point you to sources on my site "just in case", so here:
> e3-271.tgz. I don't

Thank you.

> think e3 will be maintained anymore, sadly. The 16-bit DOS version is
> pretty crappy, though (if I am allowed to say that without offending the
> author, heh): 32k file limit, not *nix LF friendly. IIRC, I probably
> mentioned on texteditors.org about using HXRT with the Win9x version
> (which WinXP and friends don't run correctly at all, go figure!). Still,
> just like FASM, e3 is cool because it's portable to so many OSes.

I was more interested in the multiple personalities, letting it look like WS, vi, Pico, and a few other things. A 4K core, and a ~20K overlay for personalities. You could actually just run the 4K core, and have a functional editor with WS keymaps.

> > It's also used in Puppy Linux. That distro wants to keep the ISO size
> > under 100MB, and does various things to save space. e3 is linked as
> vi.
>
> I assume XVI would be a better fit (still small but useful). Some others

<shrug> It's a matter of what Puppy creator Barry Kaufer found back when. Puppy also uses Minimum Profit in some cases, which is an interesting editor with scripting ability. It would be nice if it settled on one, but some scripts are coded to call e3 as vi, and some to call mp, so I don't see it happening any time soon.

> I've seen use an older version of Elvis, which is relatively small too.
> And, as mentioned, most GNU/Linux distros include Vim-tiny. Heck, JED is a

The ones I know of all include full Vim.

> very good Emacs clone and can emulate vi too (while not barely topping 2 MB
> unpacked for the DOS port). Not bad, if you ask me.

Not bad at all. I looked at and respect JED.

> > > > > I have some comparison notes about various DOS editors that I've
> > > > > been making for a while now, might post it online fairly soon
> > > > > just for laughs.
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to see it. Feel free to add it to TextEditors.org. It's
> > > > the sort of thing the site was made for.
> > >
> > > I'll dig it up for you, but I'm not sure how it would fit into the
> > > setup of TextEditors. (It's mostly just a huge bunch of comments
> > > in a .BAT file.)
> >
> > Send it along, and I'll see about editing for format.
>
> I'll take a quick look later tonight and try uploading it tomorrow.

Thanks!

> > > > One Windows, I use Notepad++ for most things. On Unix/Linux, I use
> > > > vi/vim, though I use Emacs on occasion, and I'm becoming fond of
> > > > Geany in X sessions under Linux.
>
> Mousepad, Beaver, Ted, Kate, mc's editor, Nano, etc. seem to be popular on
> Linux.

I had an IT Director boss who used Nano by preference. He couldn't stand the design of vi. :-P

Mousepad is the default editor for the XFCE window manager/desktop environment. It's a little too minimal for my taste.

> BTW, do I remember incorrectly, or is Notepad++ the #1 Sourceforge
> project now?

I haven't looked, but you may well be right. It's a very fine piece of code, regularly enhanced. The one thing it lacks is a scripting facility.

There are a number of editors like Notespad based on the Scintilla edit control. Geany, the standard GUI editor on Puppy Linux, is another.

> > > As you may know, TDE works on DOS (16-bit or 32-bit), Win32 console,
> > > and Linux w/ ncurses. Not that I ever use Linux much, and it never comes
> > > default so I built my own binary (which I always forget to use).

I'm aware, but haven't gotten to the point of building a binary for Linux.

> > > Vim-tiny seems default on most GNU/Linux distros (although gNewSense
> > > includes GNU Emacs, thankfully).

Most distros have Gnu Emacs available as a package, so it's easy enough to add it if it doesn't come as part of the base install.

I prefer vi, but that's a side-effect of using Unix since the 80s when vi was what it came with.

> > Yes, I have and use TDE under Win32 console. Haven't moved it to Linux
> > yet.
>
> If you have libncurses-dev, you can build it yourself (although not all
> distros have that).

I think I do, but getting a build environment set up for Puppy is slighly complex, and I wouldn't do it on the Lifebook in any case. I'd grow old and grey waiting for a build to finish. If I have sufficient reason, I'll put Puppy up in multi-boot mode on my desktop alongside Win2K, WinXP, and Kubuntu, and set up the development environment there.

> > > That predates me a bit. :-)) But I imagine you mean something like
> > > Forth block editors (or not, who knows, EDT? heh).
> >
> > Neither.
> >
> > 3270 terminals were block mode, not character mode. In normal editing on
> > character mode terminals, each char you type is sent is sent immediately
> > to the host.
> >
> > On a block mode terminal, when you were editing, you could move around
> > to screen and change things, but that all happened locally. When you hit
> > Enter (might have been called Submit or something), the entire
> > screen was sent to the host.
>
> Wacky. But that sounds like something I've read before too. It's almost

<shrug> It's IBM. You got used to it.

> like when I read Bill Joy say, "vi was a product of the times, not really
> needed anymore" (e.g. fast screen updates remotely over terminal or
> whatever).

Bill was developing vi back when his home connection to the host at UC Berkeley was a 300 baud dial-up modem, so there was a premium on efficient screen handling. For that matter, Unix was developed when the normal interface the the host was a dialup hardcopy terminal. The terse command syntax was in part an effort to get maximum results from minimum typing.

Vi and WordStar share a common design characteristic: they are terminal independent. If you have a QWERTY keyboard and a Control key, you can use them. In the case of Unix, some of the early terminals used to connect to Unix systems didn't have F-keys or arrow keys, and the same was true of keyboards on some old CP/M systems.

> But obviously almost nobody uses vanilla vi, only the extended
> variants (mostly Elvis or VILE or VIM, especially VIM, the topic for 99%
> of posts on news://comp.editors !!).

And for good reason. :)

The original vi is now open source: http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/
______
Dennis

Rugxulo(R)

Homepage

Usono,
07.04.2009, 00:33

@ Dennis

text editors (in memory of Steve)

> > > Ah. Thanks for the new e3. I have it here, because I collect tiny
> > > editors.
> >
> > The e3 site (if you can call it that, only two links) is back up now. I
>
> I don't believe that one was ever down. The site I meant was
> http://www.sax.de/~adlibit/, which is "up", but returns a blank screen
> when accessed.

That's the old site, back from when 2.7.0 was current. I don't know why, but it migrated to the other one at some point.

> > just like FASM, e3 is cool because it's portable to so many OSes.
>
> I was more interested in the multiple personalities, letting it look like
> WS, vi, Pico, and a few other things. A 4K core, and a ~20K overlay for
> personalities. You could actually just run the 4K core, and have a
> functional editor with WS keymaps.

Well, JOE, JED, GNU Emacs all can emulate keysets. Even TDE can do CUA at least.

> > very good Emacs clone and can emulate vi too (while not barely topping 2
> > MB unpacked for the DOS port). Not bad, if you ask me.
>
> Not bad at all. I looked at and respect JED.

I forgot the disclaimer that UPX was used. ;-) Besides, rr told me what I discovered recently: that JED won't build on DOS except with some weird tweak to the mouse support (which isn't a deal breaker for me personally although I'd feel foolish if I compiled without it since it works so well).

> > > > I'll dig it up for you, but I'm not sure how it would fit into the
> > > > setup of TextEditors. (It's mostly just a huge bunch of comments
> > > > in a .BAT file.)
> > >
> > > Send it along, and I'll see about editing for format.
> >
> > I'll take a quick look later tonight and try uploading it tomorrow.
>
> Thanks!

Hmmm, still haven't done that. Maybe when I'm done posting here. :-P

> > If you have libncurses-dev, you can build it yourself (although not all
> > distros have that).
>
> I think I do, but getting a build environment set up for Puppy is slighly
> complex, and I wouldn't do it on the Lifebook in any case. I'd grow old
> and grey waiting for a build to finish. If I have sufficient reason, I'll
> put Puppy up in multi-boot mode on my desktop alongside Win2K, WinXP, and
> Kubuntu, and set up the development environment there.

Well, I could probably just send you my build, it most likely works. Or you could just run the DOS version in DOSEMU (doubt it, heh). ;-)

> > But obviously almost nobody uses vanilla vi, only the extended
> > variants (mostly Elvis or VILE or VIM, especially VIM, the topic for
> 99%
> > of posts on news://comp.editors !!).
>
> And for good reason. :)
>
> The original vi is now open source: http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/

Seen it but never bothered trying it, no need.

Rugxulo(R)

Homepage

Usono,
07.04.2009, 01:07

@ Rugxulo

text editors (in memory of Steve)

> > > > > I'll dig it up for you, but I'm not sure how it would fit into
> > > > > the setup of TextEditors. (It's mostly just a huge bunch
> > > > > comments in a .BAT file.)
> > > >
> > > > Send it along, and I'll see about editing for format.
> > >
> > > I'll take a quick look later tonight and try uploading it tomorrow.
> >
> > Thanks!
>
> Hmmm, still haven't done that. Maybe when I'm done posting here. :-P

Okay, here it is. Don't get your hopes too high, but it's pretty good IMHO (much better than nothing, at least!).

V49SPLIT.TXT

> > > If you have libncurses-dev, you can build it yourself (although
> > > not all distros have that).
> >
> > I think I do, but getting a build environment set up for Puppy
> > is slighly complex, and I wouldn't do it on the Lifebook in any
> > case. I'd grow old and grey waiting for a build to finish. If I
> > have sufficient reason, I'll put Puppy up in multi-boot mode on
> > my desktop alongside Win2K, WinXP, and Kubuntu, and set up
> > the development environment there.
>
> Well, I could probably just send you my build, it most likely works. Or
> you could just run the DOS version in DOSEMU (doubt it, heh). ;-)

http://rugxulo.googlepages.com/tdelinux.gz (154k, binary only)

I'll be honest, I can't remember if it was a static compile or not (maybe had issues with that which I'm too dumb to fix), but hopefully it works for you! Besides, I've got a bunch of .ISOs lying around, most with GCC, so one is bound to work for your PuppyLinux. BTW, you'll need to rename TDE.CFG and TDE.SHL to .tdecfg and .tdeshl, respectively (in your %HOME% dir). They're in the official TDE package.

Dennis(R)

07.04.2009, 01:08

@ Rugxulo

text editors (in memory of Steve)

> > > just like FASM, e3 is cool because it's portable to so many OSes.
> >
> > I was more interested in the multiple personalities, letting it look like
> > WS, vi, Pico, and a few other things. A 4K core, and a ~20K overlay for
> > personalities. You could actually just run the 4K core, and have a
> > functional editor with WS keymaps.
>
> Well, JOE, JED, GNU Emacs all can emulate keysets. Even TDE can do CUA at
> least.

Sure, if you configure them. e3 does it out of the box. It's a bit like vi on Unix, where vi, view, and ex are hard links to the same executable. The program uses the name it is called by to determine which behavior to exhibit.

Same with e3 - symlink it to vi, and Poof!, it emulates vi. No config required.

> > > very good Emacs clone and can emulate vi too (while not barely topping
> > > 2 MB unpacked for the DOS port). Not bad, if you ask me.
> >
> > Not bad at all. I looked at and respect JED.
>
> I forgot the disclaimer that UPX was used. ;-)

Yeah, but lots of things use UPX. Handy for conserving disk space, but that's much less a concern now.

> Besides, rr told
> me what I discovered recently: that JED won't build on DOS except with
> some weird tweak to the mouse support (which isn't a deal breaker for me
> personally although I'd feel foolish if I compiled without it since it
> works so well).

Never tried to build it on DOS, and didn't notice. I'll keep that in mind.

> > > > > I'll dig it up for you, but I'm not sure how it would fit into
> > > > > the setup of TextEditors. (It's mostly just a huge bunch of
> > > > > comments in a .BAT file.)
> > > >
> > > > Send it along, and I'll see about editing for format.
> > >
> > > I'll take a quick look later tonight and try uploading it tomorrow.
> >
> > Thanks!
>
> Hmmm, still haven't done that. Maybe when I'm done posting here. :-P

Looking forward to it.

> > > If you have libncurses-dev, you can build it yourself (although not
> > > all distros have that).
> >
> > I think I do, but getting a build environment set up for Puppy is
> > slightly complex, and I wouldn't do it on the Lifebook in any case. I'd
> > grow old and grey waiting for a build to finish. If I have sufficient
> > reason, I'll put Puppy up in multi-boot mode on my desktop alongside
> > Win2K, WinXP, and Kubuntu, and set up the development environment there.
>
> Well, I could probably just send you my build, it most likely works. Or

IF you would, I'd be pleased.

> you could just run the DOS version in DOSEMU (doubt it, heh). ;-)

Nope. I have DOSEMU set up as a test, but prefer native apps. (I did confirm VDE runs fine in it, but I got an old Linux port (based on the CP/M VDE sources) called sue I'll likely use instead.

> > > But obviously almost nobody uses vanilla vi, only the extended
> > > variants (mostly Elvis or VILE or VIM, especially VIM, the topic for
> > > 99% of posts on news://comp.editors !!).
> >
> > And for good reason. :)
> >
> > The original vi is now open source: http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/
>
> Seen it but never bothered trying it, no need.

I haven't either. I just noted it for reference. I was amused to see it turn up as open source. (Someday I'll find out exactly how it made its way from BSD Unix into AT&T Sys V.)
______
Dennis

Rugxulo(R)

Homepage

Usono,
07.04.2009, 01:14

@ Dennis

text editors (in memory of Steve)

> > Well, JOE, JED, GNU Emacs all can emulate keysets. Even TDE can do CUA
> > at least.
>
> Sure, if you configure them. e3 does it out of the box. It's a bit like
> vi on Unix, where vi, view, and ex are hard links to the same executable.
> The program uses the name it is called by to determine which behavior to
> exhibit.
>
> Same with e3 - symlink it to vi, and Poof!, it emulates vi. No config
> required.

DJGPP supports similar symlinks although few apps make use of it.

> > I forgot the disclaimer that UPX was used. ;-)
>
> Yeah, but lots of things use UPX. Handy for conserving disk space, but
> that's much less a concern now.

Well, as mentioned, e-mail attachments, website limits, etc. still constrain us.

> > Besides, rr told
> > me what I discovered recently: that JED won't build on DOS except with
> > some weird tweak to the mouse support (which isn't a deal breaker
> > for me personally although I'd feel foolish if I compiled without
> > it since it works so well).
>
> Never tried to build it on DOS, and didn't notice. I'll keep that in
> mind.

Will be fixed with a third-party patch eventually (since J.E.D. is A.W.O.L).

> > > > I'll take a quick look later tonight and try uploading it tomorrow.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> >
> > Hmmm, still haven't done that. Maybe when I'm done posting here. :-P
>
> Looking forward to it.

You're here, it's here, right on time. :-D

> > Well, I could probably just send you my build, it most likely works. Or
>
> IF you would, I'd be pleased.

Done, hope it works!

> > > The original vi is now open source: http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/
> >
> > Seen it but never bothered trying it, no need.
>
> I haven't either. I just noted it for reference. I was amused to see it
> turn up as open source. (Someday I'll find out exactly how it made its
> way from BSD Unix into AT&T Sys V.)

I don't know, but Caldera (in)famously open sourced it as well as some other stuff, IIRC. And they are very weird, IMHO.

rr(R)

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
13.04.2009, 17:19

@ Dennis

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

Today I've received this e-mail from Andy Adelewitz:

Hello -

I am Steve Adelewitz's nephew, and am sad to bear the news that Steve did indeed pass away in January. He died at home in the Bronx of a heart attack (no idea why there would be a record indicating "Africa"). Thanks to all who've posted in kind memory here.

Regards,
Andy Adelewitz

rr(R)

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
15.04.2009, 19:38

@ Dennis

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

I also got an e-mail from Rosie Adelewitz:

My son noticed your posting on my brother-in-law Steven Adelewitz.

I'm sorry to confirm that Steve {...} passed away in January. Steve had a heart attack {...}

Thanks to everyone for their positive comments on Steve and his contribution to your community. Steve lived in the Bronx, not in Africa...sometimes they are confused for one another. :-)

Rosie Adelewitz
Ithaca, NY

sol(R)

18.04.2009, 11:46

@ rr

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

This is not cool at all.

rr(R)

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
19.02.2010, 23:00

@ Dennis

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

Already more than one year w/o Steve. :-|

rr(R)

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
14.03.2010, 23:57

@ rr

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

> Already more than one year w/o Steve. :-|

As a salute to Steve's fantastic job and for your reference, I have uploaded a copy of his work to http://www.bttr-software.de/freesoft/

Richard L. Green, original author of "Free Software For DOS", seems to continue Steve's work on http://reimagery.com/fsfd/

rr(R)

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
06.02.2013, 22:46

@ rr

Information on Steve Adelewitz?

> > Already more than one year w/o Steve. :-|
>
> As a salute to Steve's fantastic job and for your reference, I have
> uploaded a copy of his work to http://www.bttr-software.de/freesoft/

Found this old info when updating my news archive. Time is running fast: It's already four years after Steve's death. :no:

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