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FreeBasic and FreePascal (Developers)

posted by marcov(R), 17.07.2014, 11:12

> > If I offended you I'm sorry, but please take the fact into
> > consideration that I have answered such questions for 17 years now, and
> > never saw a constructive outcome.
>
> 1997? You seriously want to pretend that you're using the same (or even
> similar) setups as back then??

No, but the comparisons were much the same. Though mostly TP/BP7, not TP5.5 which was nearly completely forgotten by then. It only came back into view due to Borland setting it free.

And despite being in the last kickings of the mainstream DOS age, the writing was clearly on the wall.

Even people still creating dos programs (like me then) wanted productivity. Getting rid of the 640k barrier and LFN was the norm (nearly all ran under win9x, even only to multitask dosboxes).

Of course sb would whine that BP7 would generate smaller binaries, and pointed to some badly maintained LFN unit for LFN support and protected mode (that killed the 640kb limit, but not the 64k limit) as scapegoats. Then sb else would comment that TP6 generated even smaller binaries.

Then sb would whip out TP4 and convert the results to .COM, finally sb wrote an application that did a bit of 32-bit register access and an LFN int in assembler, and proved that assembler was Turing complete. (not that anybody asked)

> Not even the same dialects or architectures!

I then did dos and a bit win32 (win95SE) in Pascal. Originally I installed Windows because of a traineeship, and my mentor demanded reports in Word (I used WP60). Privately I only used it to multitask dosboxes. .

Programming was mostly go32v2. I don't think the win32 port existed yet, and dabbling with Linux on a 486 server.

> (TP only and no AMD64.) And size usually mattered more back then than now.

Not that much, not even in 1997 it mattered much. CD burners had arrived, and while they were quite expensive (500-600Eur which was even more back then), you simply took your HD (bigfoot 2.5GB iirc) to a shop with a burner, who would burn it for Eur 20 (later 10).

Yes, people still made rescue floppy discs back then and shoehorned something on it (yes, even I used UPX once), but one didn't center the whole world around it anymore.

> I'm not saying size is very important in most cases. Obviously people don't
> know, don't care, don't have time, "it just works", etc. But it's
> ridiculous to pretend that it's somehow bad to actually identify and fix
> the problem!

That's the point. It is only a *PROBLEM* in minimalists minds. Even back then I had better things to do with my time. You only do something about size, if it is really, really prohibitive, not because of some underbelly feeling that it is not "right' (e.g. during a brief WINCE stint).

That's the whole issue here. Micromanaging size without a direct reason is an hobby. Sure, the proponents try to dress it up (I still have this old 8088 machine, I still deliver through 2400 baud lines, I spend my days creating bootdisks), but it is still the same.

Nobody is really planning any form of development traject. They just want to be confirmed that they reached the pinnacle of their personal quest, the smallest binary and demonstrate their "knowledge".

> (But presumably you're just complaining about the complainers, not those
> actually doing work to fix this)

The sadness of it all is, that despite my reluctance, I'm still probably doing more to fix this. At least in FPC, and I have been doing it for a long time now. It might be not enough in your eyes, but that doesn't mean that nothing is done, and that there is not an eye for the worst excesses.

Much of the current work is being done for embedded targets (MIPS and ARM). that are OSless, diskless, and nearly RTLless.

 

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