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Interresting DOS forum in german (Announce)

posted by marcov(R), 21.09.2018, 15:56

> I used to watch a lot of tv but don't too much anymore. But no, I never saw
> any of their stuff.

Definitely check out Louis de Funès, he is hilarious

> Cable has gotten even more expensive in recent years,
> and the whole digital takeover somewhat annoyed everyone. That, plus faster
> internet and streaming, makes the landscape a much different place than
> before.

Here they recently are upping the commercial break frequency, after American model. Annoying.

> It's fairly common to subtitle foreign films. Heck, CC (closed captions)
> are quite common, too. Though I never had working SAP (second audio
> program), e.g. Spanish (which I don't grok anyways), hence my point that
> it's more popular elsewhere. Dubbing is somewhat rarer, e.g. old kung fu
> movies.

That's probably because Mexico and Spanish Americans in general is a different DVD regioncode from US. So there was no real financial incentive to make them multilingual. Here selling the same disc but with a nationalized sleeve seems a way to efficiently cater to smaller language areas.

>(TBN hispanic english) thought it a good idea! Isn't that weird??

Very weird. If not language it must be cultural.

> > But a dialect (like mine, in the Limburg region) is nearly (wholly?) a
> > separate language. There is a wikipedia division for it even.
> Like Pascal (or Forth), there are (too) many variations.

(Ouch, the religious topics are further down! NO need to begin here!)

... Or K&R, or C++ or D, or whatever spin offs considered them the next generation of C.

Anyway, a language is a dialect with some rubber stamp of approval, usually fairly arbitrary.

> Well, there are often debates about what constitutes a dialect or not. I
> read someone say Galician was practically a dialect of Portuguese, but who
> knows.

Worse, there is something called dialect continuum. Which means that dialects don't have nice borders but gradually change the further you go. German is extra complicated because Northern German platt is such enormous area. Probably larger than Dutch.

> > Luther on German, Staten Bible on Dutch, King James on English. Before
> > there were hardly books in the vernacular, mostly just Latin and/or
> > French.
> Obviously you know that the Latin Vulgate was Catholic

Latin. The Latin Church is a subdivision of the Catholic Church. Some Easter Mediterranean and Middle Eastern churches are Catholic but not Latin. This was clarified by Pius-I-Forgot-his-number-but-during-WII.

> but the Anglicans
> didn't want to keep communion with them, hence the schism, separate
> (incompatible) translation, etc. Similar problem with Luther.

No. Luther originally wanted to reform the church, not create a schism. One of his critiques is that nearly all churchgoers couldn't understand the Latin services and had no direct access to religion's sources, except through priests. This is why he translated the bible while he was banned. (what is the correct English for this? I meant a formal Church Ban here)

> Not entirely sure what the Dutch history is.

In a nutshell:

Part Lutherian, larger part Calvinist (Presbyterians are Anglo Saxon Calvinists), which was also state religion of the Republic. Contra reformation by Spain (combined with a vast military offensive) re-catholisized the southern provinces and Belgium. The Dutch-Belgium borderline is chiefly based on the final frontline in that conflict.

There also was small Jewish population (both Sephardic, Spanish connection, as Ashkenazi), chiefly in larger cities (and then specially in Amsterdam) which was hit very hard in WWII.

Since the sixties large influx of immigrant labour, mostly from Morocco and Turkey. So there is also a 5% Islam nowadays.

> Used to be a big Protestant
> stronghold but that seemingly evaporated in recent years (massive
> secularism but with strong Catholic minority).

Protestant majority, but fragmented over Lutheran and Calvinist, so largest single religion is Catholic (40%). Secularism biggest in Lutheran and Catholic circles, less in Calvinist. That 40% is by origin, not practising.

If you go to a church here on a Sunday service, it will mostly be elderly people. And a lot REALLY elderly (like 80+, the baby boom generation is already heavily secularized)

> It's weird when reading about random people like Job Cohen (whom Wikipedia > described as a "Jewish atheist").

Well, I'm a catholic one :-)

> Yeah, I don't want to pretend to get into politics or religious wars, just
> find it all odd.

I'm not religious at all, but religion is a major factor in historic events, as which is why we got here, the influence of 1500-1600s bible translations on the formation of their respective standard languages.

> Of course it was more about government control and different
> interpretations (to say the least).

Some might actually have believed this or the other interpretation to be the ONE, but I think there was also a lot of pragmatism.

On the government side probably a main factor was to stop people fighting in the streets. The unrest prompted states (in this case: the various states of the fragmented German Empire) to declare preferred religion in the hope that would quiet things down.

Not that it helped, Europe was in for a century of religiously motivated warfare.

> > DVD/BD Movies sold here universally come with subtitling and or dub
> tracks
> > for most major West European countries. TV stations are dubbed or
> > subtitled.
> Blu-Ray (and variants, XL? I never kept up personally) can hold a lot more
> space, so yes, I've definitely seen those have much much more regarding
> dubbing and subtitles than plain (smaller) DVDs.

Afaik audio tracks are not that large, and even commonly found on DVDs.

> I mostly think the world
> has semi-standardized on Blu-Ray after all these years (remember PS3? early
> 2006 vs. XBox360 with optional, third-party HD-DVD), but last I checked,
> Dell didn't include it by default in any laptops, only optionally.

I have a BD writer in my Sony laptop :-) But I rarely toast CD/DVD/BDs these days. Even the last main reason, making CDs for use in cars has been made irrelevant since most cars have some form of mp3 sound now)

> Though I swear that trip was supposed to be (quasi) temporary, roughly ten
> years, something about reuniting or visiting distant cousins. Maybe I'm
> misunderstanding because I don't honestly know the details.

In that period a lot of people went to East Indies (now: Indonesia) simply to work in the colonial build-up. My mother's family went too, my grandfather was working in the maintaining of printing presses at the time, but came back because there was too much unrest. One uncle was born in Jakarta.

> > in 450 and seized control. But demographics prohibited their language
> > getting dominance, so that's why France speeks French, which is not a
> > Frankish language.
> (Western?) Rome ended in, what, 453?

Yes, but a lot of their power was already gone before, including control of Gaul/France. The guy the Franks overran had no backup from Rome. Basically a Roman officer (Magister millitium) who founded his own little kingdom.

> But the Byzantine decline (1453?) was
> the true end (IIRC). And I assume you're superficially aware of the Vulgate
> Bible (speaking of Vulgar Latin).

It is said that Vulgar Latin was a dialect continuum at that time, but later it broke up in multiple languages.

> > > Of course, what little was left 900 years later, if any??
> >
> > Well, William the Conqueror was more 1066 so that is more like 200 years
> > later, but afaik then they were already mostly frenchified.
> I meant 1066 vs. 19th century Frenchwoman from Normandy. How much was left?

Ah ok. That paragraph. I can't really imagine that much left there. There were not that many Danes to begin with, and as nobility they mostly would have gone to England.

> I mean, I *really* don't want to be too glib or rude here, but look at
> France's recent world cup victory. Those Vikings sure are talented. :-P

You do realize that Normandy is a terribly small piece of France? I wouldn't be surprised that the Norman invasion was like 200 people or so.

And then I'm not even counting football teams high percentage of people with non European roots. (Nothing wrong with that, but they probably don't trace back to 11th century Normandy)


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