DOS ain't dead

I was asked by Stefan Weber to test new NDN beta which fix the bug that I had reported (when calling external progs via NDN.EXT under winNT/2k/XP wrong command interpretted is called). Now it seems to work for me. Enjoy:

http://www.bnhof.de/~ho1459/files/ndn_exec_bin_d32.exe

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

> I was asked by Stefan Weber to test new NDN beta which fix the bug that I
> had reported (when calling external progs via NDN.EXT under winNT/2k/XP
> wrong command interpretted is called). Now it seems to work for me.
> Enjoy:
>
> http://www.bnhof.de/~ho1459/files/ndn_exec_bin_d32.exe

Isn't the DOS/DPMI version only recommended for Win9x? I'm not saying in theory that DOS stuff shouldn't run well on 32-bit Windows, but I know from experience that Vista has many DOS bugs (even some that XP doesn't) that they refuse to fix (!), so I don't see any point in trying to run overly ambitious DOS/DPMI apps on it. Dare I say it, maybe he should just "push out" the release as a "normal beta" and get feedback that way. (Argh, I've procrastinated updating my DOS machines too, heh, still have ye olde latest NDN archive sitting in my temp dir.)

> Isn't the DOS/DPMI version only recommended for Win9x? I'm not saying
> in theory that DOS stuff shouldn't run well on 32-bit Windows, but
> I know from experience that Vista has many DOS bugs (even some that XP
> doesn't) that they refuse to fix (!), so I don't see any point in trying
> to run overly ambitious DOS/DPMI apps on it.

It's tempting to have one app working in DOS and WINDOWS.
The problem, as you have already noted, is that WNT+ OS's don't
have good/complete DOS support built in.
Most notably missing clipboard support.

But I do think about working it around via an additional
"BOP, VDD/DLL" application. This however is of VERY low priority.
But it's interesting nonetheless. Maybe it's possible to create
something that is not only usable by NDN but could be used by
many more DOS apps in general....

> Dare I say it, maybe he
> should just "push out" the release as a "normal beta" and get feedback
> that way. (Argh, I've procrastinated updating my DOS machines too, heh,
> still have ye olde latest NDN archive sitting in my temp dir.)

Yes, that's what I am usually doing.
But some bugs do need verification by the one who has submitted the bug
report. I cannot remove the bug from the todo list until I am 100% sure
that it's fixed.

Btw, this beta was only meant for RayeR.

Stefan / AH

I have a pascal source how to add NT clipdoard into DOS program.
Look here: http://www.laaca.borec.cz/dos-win.pas

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DOS-u-akbar!

> It's tempting to have one app working in DOS and WINDOWS.

Apparently DOS ain't enough of a priority to keep working, even emulated. So we're stuck with bitrotted support at best (or none at worst: Win64). I'd be glad just for XP-ish compatibility, but alas!

> The problem, as you have already noted, is that WNT+ OS's don't
> have good/complete DOS support built in.
> Most notably missing clipboard support.

Who knows why it's so broken. Maybe their compiler broke some old code, I dunno. I just feel really dopey having apps break, only to be told "target Win32". God forbid they not break what already works.

> But I do think about working it around via an additional
> "BOP, VDD/DLL" application. This however is of VERY low priority.
> But it's interesting nonetheless. Maybe it's possible to create
> something that is not only usable by NDN but could be used by
> many more DOS apps in general....

I've mentioned NTOLDAPP here before. You mean something like that?

> I have a pascal source how to add NT clipdoard into DOS program.
> Look here: http://www.laaca.borec.cz/dos-win.pas

Thanks for the hint.
I will check the out xp_ntvdm.dll.

> > But I do think about working it around via an additional
> > "BOP, VDD/DLL" application. This however is of VERY low priority.
> > But it's interesting nonetheless. Maybe it's possible to create
> > something that is not only usable by NDN but could be used by
> > many more DOS apps in general....
>
> I've mentioned
> NTOLDAPP here
> before. You mean something like that?

Yes, and I have bookmarked and downloaded it already.
I just need to implement it so that it doesn't require the user to
install or do anything.
Let's see when I'll be able to work on this.

> I have a pascal source how to add NT clipdoard into DOS program.
> Look here: http://www.laaca.borec.cz/dos-win.pas

Brr, the dreaded S-Lizenz.....

http://www.crosspoint.de/oldlicense.html

> > I have a pascal source how to add NT clipdoard into DOS program.
> > Look here: http://www.laaca.borec.cz/dos-win.pas
>
> Brr, the dreaded S-Lizenz.....
>
> http://www.crosspoint.de/oldlicense.html

I can't even pretend to read that. And German users are often fond of saying "doesn't apply to us", so I think I'll extend the gesture. Besides, it's the API we're interested in, not the code itself, and you can't copyright that.

> Isn't the DOS/DPMI version only recommended for Win9x? I'm not saying...

I just like to use one file manager that can work under DOS and Windows (good for various safe boot disks with limited space). Look at DN OSP, VC, NC, M602, MM... - all this works fine under win9x/NT/2k/XP DOS window. So why NDN couldn't run well too? I would prefer NDN over DN OSP because NDN is still alive and doesn't have some bugs of DN OSP.

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

> > Isn't the DOS/DPMI version only recommended for Win9x? I'm not saying...
>
> I just like to use one file manager that can work under DOS and Windows
> (good for various safe boot disks with limited space). Look at DN OSP, VC,
> NC, M602, MM... - all this works fine under win9x/NT/2k/XP DOS window. So
> why NDN couldn't run well too? I would prefer NDN over DN OSP because NDN
> is still alive and doesn't have some bugs of DN OSP.

While I agree entirely, it seems that DOS/DPMI is being heavily deprecated by many people, including Microsoft. XP works okay, but Win2k3 (DPMI limit unfixed and yet "no more service packs") and Vista (many "new" NTVDM bugs) do not work acceptably at all. Win7 will be out in less than a month, and it's NT 6.1 (vs. Vista's 6.0), so I expect nothing to change.

> While I agree entirely, it seems that DOS/DPMI is being heavily deprecated
> by many people, including Microsoft. XP works okay, but Win2k3 (DPMI limit
> unfixed and yet "no more service packs") and Vista (many "new" NTVDM bugs)
> do not work acceptably at all. Win7 will be out in less than a month, and
> it's NT 6.1 (vs. Vista's 6.0), so I expect nothing to change.

I know that dos support/comaptability is fading. Even no NTVDM on 64bit OS. But as long as possible I will keep my well tuned WinXP 32 SP3. I didn't see any advantages in Vista/W7 that brings me something new (I use minimum of systems apps - mostly use 3rd party replacements), except DX10/11.

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.