DOS ain't dead

Stefan Weber has released Necromancer's DOS Navigator 2.31.5222 on 13 Dec 2009.

Website: http://ndn.muxe.com
Download: http://ndn.muxe.com/download/
Changes: http://forums.muxe.com/index.php?showtopic=3249

Wow, seems that Stefan had fixed compatability issues of DOS DPMI version under Win2k/XP. It now uses winoldapp.dll (kinda VDD?). Now it starts up fast and work smooth without anu short hangs. Calling commandline batches from ndn.ext works fine too. So thank you for the xmass gift :)

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

> Wow, seems that Stefan had fixed compatability issues of DOS DPMI version
> under Win2k/XP. It now uses winoldapp.dll (kinda VDD?). Now it starts up
> fast and work smooth without anu short hangs. Calling commandline batches
> from ndn.ext works fine too. So thank you for the xmass gift :)

Copying to clipboard works now (Vista SP2) although it didn't find "winoldap.dll" by default, so I had to first manually move it to "%WINDIR%\system32". (This should be mentioned in the docs somewhere, I think.)

> > Wow, seems that Stefan had fixed compatability issues of DOS DPMI
> version
> > under Win2k/XP. It now uses winoldapp.dll (kinda VDD?). Now it starts
> up
> > fast and work smooth without anu short hangs. Calling commandline
> batches
> > from ndn.ext works fine too. So thank you for the xmass gift :)
>
> Copying to clipboard works now (Vista SP2) although it didn't find
> "winoldap.dll" by default, so I had to first manually move it to
> "%WINDIR%\system32". (This should be mentioned in the docs somewhere, I
> think.)

Hi,

the DLL (yes, VDD) should be in <NDN home dir>\dll\.
If Windows cannot find a DLL/VDD it searches by default in the system32 directory.

Please check this and give me an update on whether you were able to make it work or not. Maybe it has to do with the path to your NDN installation?

Thank you,
Stefan / AH

> the DLL (yes, VDD) should be in <NDN home dir>\dll\.
> If Windows cannot find a DLL/VDD it searches by default in the system32
> directory.
>
> Please check this and give me an update on whether you were able to make
> it work or not. Maybe it has to do with the path to your NDN
> installation?

I'm fairly certain it's a Vista thing, as I know XP doesn't require it to be in \system32. I had similar issues with Japheth's NTDPMIX.

> > the DLL (yes, VDD) should be in <NDN home dir>\dll\.
> > If Windows cannot find a DLL/VDD it searches by default in the system32
> > directory.
> >
> > Please check this and give me an update on whether you were able to
> make
> > it work or not. Maybe it has to do with the path to your NDN
> > installation?
>
> I'm fairly certain it's a Vista thing, as I know XP doesn't require it to
> be in \system32. I had similar issues with Japheth's NTDPMIX.
Anyone can try with Windows 7?
Vista was a "Totgeburt", sorry for german language, don't know an appropriate english word! ;)

Stefan / AH

> Anyone can try with Windows 7?
> Vista was a "Totgeburt", sorry for german language, don't know an
> appropriate english word! ;)
>
> Stefan / AH

I have Win 7 in VMware so I can try it there...

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

> I have Win 7 in VMware so I can try it there...

I tested it under Win7Ultimate and it works! But you have to copy the DLL into win\system32 directory. Then clipboard works fine.

VDD in NDN directory
Necromancer's Dos Navigator v2.31.5222/DPMI32.
Based on Dos Navigator by Ritlabs...
[DEFINES/CPU86/CPU87/DPMI32/VIRTUALPASCAL]
* Windows NT (v5.0) detected, Virtual Machine number is 0...
* PCRE Version 7.7 2008-05-07
* Sabretooth TCP/IP Stack (STIPS) v1.2.4 (NDN) / 05.05.2009
* WinOldAp v1.0 / 10.10.2009: WinOldAp error (#1): NTVDM: DLL file not found!

VDD in system directory
Necromancer's Dos Navigator v2.31.5222/DPMI32.
Based on Dos Navigator by Ritlabs...
[DEFINES/CPU86/CPU87/DPMI32/VIRTUALPASCAL]
* Windows NT (v5.0) detected, Virtual Machine number is 0...
* PCRE Version 7.7 2008-05-07
* Sabretooth TCP/IP Stack (STIPS) v1.2.4 (NDN) / 05.05.2009
* WinOldAp v1.0 / 10.10.2009: WinOldAp error (#0): No Error!

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

> I tested it under Win7Ultimate and it works! But you have to copy the DLL
> into win\system32 directory. Then clipboard works fine.
Thank you for the tests!

Maybe the VDD API has been changed, so it's really only possible to run
DLLs out of the system32 directory?

Have to check that out sooner or later.

Thank you,
Stefan / AH

> > I tested it under Win7Ultimate and it works! But you have to copy the
> DLL
> > into win\system32 directory. Then clipboard works fine.
> Thank you for the tests!
>
> Maybe the VDD API has been changed, so it's really only possible to run
> DLLs out of the system32 directory?

For the record, I tried using the ".local" trick yesterday, but either I did it wrong (somewhat likely) or it doesn't work for DOS apps (even more likely, same with manifests). Oh well. I think the only real issue here is that the user has to manually install it. Could be worse I guess.

> For the record, I tried using the ".local" trick yesterday, but either I
> did it wrong (somewhat likely) or it doesn't work for DOS apps (even more
> likely, same with manifests). Oh well. I think the only real issue here is
> that the user has to manually install it. Could be worse I guess.

Yes, I think who is capable to use DOS Navigator he also can copy the DLL to system directory. BFUs who use windows explorer will not need it :)

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

> > For the record, I tried using the ".local" trick yesterday, but either I
> > did it wrong (somewhat likely) or it doesn't work for DOS apps (even
> more
> > likely, same with manifests). Oh well. I think the only real issue here
> is
> > that the user has to manually install it. Could be worse I guess.
Well, I don't like it. :P

> Yes, I think who is capable to use DOS Navigator he also can copy the DLL
> to system directory. BFUs who use windows explorer will not need it :)
But it's not obvious.
I must at least add a note on this.

Happy new year,
Stefan / AH

BTW, strange bug in latest:

DOS version in DR-DOS can't find my apps in C:\UTILS (which is first in my PATH); however, if I change it to U:\ (SUBST drive I use for quicker typing) it works. Why??? I just checked the DOS version under Vista, and it works fine with C:\ARMSLURP\UTILS as first in PATH, so I dunno ....

> BTW, strange bug in latest:
>
> DOS version in DR-DOS can't find my apps in C:\UTILS (which is first in my
> PATH); however, if I change it to U:\ (SUBST drive I use for quicker
> typing) it works. Why??? I just checked the DOS version under Vista, and
> it works fine with C:\ARMSLURP\UTILS as first in PATH, so I dunno ....

What happens if you move C:\UTILS later into %PATH%?
What happens if you add a trailing \?
Does it work in MS-DOS 7?

Stefan / AH

> > BTW, strange bug in latest:
> >
> > DOS version in DR-DOS can't find my apps in C:\UTILS (which is first
> > in my PATH)
>
> What happens if you move C:\UTILS later into %PATH%?

Nothing.

> What happens if you add a trailing \?

Nothing.

> Does it work in MS-DOS 7?

Okay, I didn't try that (although I only have half a bootdisk of that to test). BUT, I did try both DR-DOS with various shells (default, FreeCom, 4DOS) and native FreeDOS (FreeCom), and neither worked. I'll try DOS 7 later, but I don't think that's the cause because it used to work fine.

Theory: I (very blindly) guess it might be due to you maybe?? putting quotes around things in some cases.

P.S. I have badly neglected my usage of NDN in the past few months due to various things: too busy to always copy / install it onto oldie favorite P166, the erstwhile slow speed between running external commands (although it's twice as fast now, so that could've been anything, maybe even something unrelated), and the fact that I heavily use DOSKEY-ish (actually Toddy) macros from cmdline. It's still an excellent app, though. <joking to marcov> And the Tetris actually works! </joking>

> Theory: I (very blindly) guess it might be due to you maybe?? putting
> quotes around things in some cases.
There have been quite some more users reporting that error.
So, I guess I have everything I need to solve the problem.
It sure is my fault, don't worry. :)

> P.S. I have badly neglected my usage of NDN in the past few months due to
> various things: too busy to always copy / install it onto oldie favorite
> P166, the erstwhile slow speed between running external commands (although
Unfortunately it's not the time for optimizations.

> Toddy) macros from cmdline. It's still an excellent app, though. <joking to
> marcov> And the Tetris actually works! </joking>
Thanks. :P

Thank you,
Stefan / AH

> > P.S. I have badly neglected my usage of NDN in the past few months
> Unfortunately it's not the time for optimizations.

It's not slow anymore! I can only guess it was that 5 MB cache regression of Jack's. Just at the time it was a little annoying, so I haven't been using it as much full-time. In other words, sorry I haven't tested it (or reported bugs) as much.

> Vista was a "Totgeburt", sorry for german language, don't know an
> appropriate english word! ;)

Afaik "stillborn".

> > Vista was a "Totgeburt", sorry for german language, don't know an
> > appropriate english word! ;)
>
> Afaik "stillborn".



I kept meaning to make my sig "Windows 7 is made of Vissssttttttaaaaaa!!!" (a la "Soylent green is made of peeeeooooppppplllleeeee!!!!") but always forgot.