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georgpotthast

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Germany,
14.11.2011, 17:36
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS (Announce)

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I can announce that there is another graphical web browser available for DOS. The Dillo browser has been ported to DOS now. You can download the first beta here:

Dillo for DOS

As I posted in this forum recently I ported the FLTK toolkit to DOS. Based on that I could port the Dillo GUI to DOS. Benjamin Johnson, who ported Dillo to Windows joined me and so this beta is available now based on Dillo for Windows.

Georg Potthast

[image]
ron

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Australia,
14.11.2011, 22:33

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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Got it, will test and report. :)

---
AUSREG Consultancy http://www.ausreg.com
Tadpole Tunes http://www.tadpoletunes.com
Sna Keo Il http://www.tadpoletunes.com/sna_keo_il/
ron

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Australia,
15.11.2011, 01:51

@ ron
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> Got it, will test and report. :)
Set it up in MSDOS 6.20 without lfn support.
Had to edit config file manually to suit dhcp, and also to set driver at 0x60 (couldn't find dns with defaults).

It surfs, it displays webpages and graphics. I am able to set screen and font sizes (manually).
So, it does run ! :)

But:
Cannot create dirs .dillo or .fltk in DOS ! So no bookmarks possible.
Cannot change settings from within Dillo, have to manually write config file.
Cannot access local files.
Cannot download anything.

I may be missing something simple and obvious, so some instructions/advice to a simpleton would be appreciated.

---
AUSREG Consultancy http://www.ausreg.com
Tadpole Tunes http://www.tadpoletunes.com
Sna Keo Il http://www.tadpoletunes.com/sna_keo_il/
RayeR

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CZ,
15.11.2011, 02:23

@ ron
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> But:
> Cannot create dirs .dillo or .fltk in DOS ! So no bookmarks possible.
> Cannot change settings from within Dillo, have to manually write config
> file.
> Cannot access local files.
> Cannot download anything.
>
> I may be missing something simple and obvious, so some
> instructions/advice to a simpleton would be appreciated.
Probably because of this port is not tuned for short file names, try to use some doslfn driver. I'd like rather future version will avoid LFNs (in binaries).

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
ron

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Australia,
15.11.2011, 02:50

@ RayeR
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> > But:
> > Cannot create dirs .dillo or .fltk in DOS ! So no bookmarks possible.
> > Cannot change settings from within Dillo, have to manually write config
> > file.
> > Cannot access local files.
> > Cannot download anything.
>
> Probably because of this port is not tuned for short file names, try to use
> some doslfn driver.
Did that. Still not able to create .dillo or .fltk directories.
And with the lfn loaded, the dhcp did not work ! No internet link !

> I'd like rather future version will avoid LFNs (in binaries).
And in font names, too ! The damn things even have spaces in the file names !
Typical Windows !!!!!

I guess there is still some work to do, but it is a good start. :)
georgpotthast

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Germany,
15.11.2011, 09:54

@ ron
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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Thank you for testing the Dillo browser for DOS.

The enclosed user guide mentions that long file names are required. I load doslfn when running it under real mode DOS.

Without doslfn loaded Dillo will not find the truetype fonts. These have been ported from Linux and therefore have these long names. There are so many font names and these in bold, italic etc that one would have to rename the fonts to numbers I guess to get them into 8:3 format. The code in Dillo, FLTK plus Xlib would have to be changed for that too. So just load doslfn for now.

The .dillo and .flkt directories are in the ZIP archive, so they should already be present when you unzip the archive with doslfn loaded.
Dillo will work without these, just output error messages that it could not find the files in these directories. If you move the Dillo window over the remains of these messages you wipe them out.

Georg
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
15.11.2011, 10:31

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> The enclosed user guide mentions that long file names are required. I load
> doslfn when running it under real mode DOS.
Yes but it's evil. Netcard driver and TCP/IP stack are very hungry for low-memory and any extra TSR need will eat even more low-memory.

> Without doslfn loaded Dillo will not find the truetype fonts. These have
> been ported from Linux and therefore have these long names. There are so
> many font names and these in bold, italic etc that one would have to rename
> the fonts to numbers I guess to get them into 8:3 format. The code in
> Dillo, FLTK plus Xlib would have to be changed for that too. So just load
> doslfn for now.
But I think it may support also SFN. DJGPP itself use some LFNs in binaries, inludes and libs but if you unzip it in plain dos mode without LFN it can still work. Under LFN environment SFN can be enforced by setting env. var "LFN=N" It does some internal conversion when you open "this_is_lfn_file.bin" it tells dos to search "this_is_.bin" file. No tilda used like windows SFN. But there may occur a conflict when 8 leading chars will be the same. I think that unzip cannot handle it and display a request to overwrite previous file. Unfortunatelly this is case of Dillo. Eg. there are some font files starting with same string "DejaVuSans-" so they cannot be properly extracted. So I think that better solution would be use of some mapping file (conditionally only for dos version) that will translate long font names to SFN file names. Also there's problem with names starting with dot. They are not extracted at all.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
georgpotthast

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Germany,
15.11.2011, 13:11

@ RayeR
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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DOSLFN requires 12k. Since Dillo runs in protected mode (DJGPP) it does not rely on real mode memory being available.

Short file names would be quite a significant change and I would like to concentrate on other issues now. I will try to change the directory names not to start with a dot though.

Georg Potthast
RayeR

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CZ,
16.11.2011, 01:12

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> DOSLFN requires 12k. Since Dillo runs in protected mode (DJGPP) it does not
> rely on real mode memory being available.

Of course DJGPP progs runs but many others don't so after closing browser I need to reboot. From my point of view any saved kB is advantage and I don't need LFN for other things...

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
ron

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Australia,
15.11.2011, 12:05

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> Thank you for testing the Dillo browser for DOS.
Always interested in DOS browsers. :)

> The enclosed user guide mentions that long file names are required.
Yes, I noticed that. That is why I tried with doslfn. Unfortunately, with doslfn loaded there was no connection with dhcp and my router.

> Without doslfn loaded Dillo will not find the truetype fonts.
Correct, it didn't.

> These have
> been ported from Linux and therefore have these long names. There are so
> many font names and these in bold, italic etc that one would have to rename
> the fonts to numbers I guess to get them into 8:3 format. The code in
> Dillo, FLTK plus Xlib would have to be changed for that too. So just load
> doslfn for now.
No point in me loading doslfn.
Dillo has no internet connection with it loaded.

> The .dillo and .flkt directories are in the ZIP archive, so they should
> already be present when you unzip the archive with doslfn loaded.

OK, I will try that again.

> Dillo will work without these, just output error messages that it could not
> find the files in these directories.
But the bookmarks are inside one of those sub-directories.
Bookmarks are pretty well vital for testing the browser.
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
15.11.2011, 12:42

@ ron
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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I see no connection between doslfn and the WATTCP.CFG file. If the my_ip parameter has been set to DHCP it should work.

Maybe without doslfn Dillo did not find the WATTCP.CFG file and used the internal default -> bootp followed by dhcp. When it finds the WATTCP.CFG file it uses the address in there which is not DHCP and does not match your router.

Georg
ron

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Australia,
15.11.2011, 13:31

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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OK, have re-unzipped under lfndos. Bookmark file now works.

> I see no connection between doslfn and the WATTCP.CFG file. If the my_ip
> parameter has been set to DHCP it should work.
I suspect it is a matter of available low memory.

I have now managed to get Dillo to connect to the internet under lfndos.
It is extremely slow to do anything (compared to without lfndos running).
It takes several minutes to show the splash screen. Whenever the mouse contacts any link it stops dead for half a minute before it can move again.

Even clicking on a link is halted at every move until the cursor is actually ON the link.
Do you get this disjointed mouse movement ?

So: with lfndos loaded Dillo works. With lfndos NOT loaded, Dillo is so much quicker but cannot make/use bookmarks.

Downloads have been a failure both with and without lfndos.
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
15.11.2011, 14:19

@ ron
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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Hi Ron,

I guess I have to test on older PCs as well. I currently work on a quad-core PC with 2 GB of memory.

Yes, I have to look into the mouse movement, selecting a link is currently not easy as it should.

I suspect you did not read the user guide word-for-word ;-) I mention there that downloads do not work. This is one of the issues I want to fix before looking into short file name support.

Georg
Zyzzle

15.11.2011, 21:50

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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Tested it, and looks wonderful... I am always very happy - and appreciative to see new software for DOS. Agree that getting downloads working is #1 priority.

BUT, for goodness sake, if you're making a DOS port of something, one of the FIRST priorities should be to get rid of LFNS and stick to 8.3! I know this may be difficult and/or cumbersome, but for DOS it's essential.

Without that, this seems to be merely a Windoze program in DOS slippers.
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
15.11.2011, 22:04

@ Zyzzle
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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Ok, ok, constant dropping wears away a stone - I had also observed that DOSLFN seems to slow things down. I looked what it would take to implement SFN support and it was not that complicated as expected. Just changed 20 subprograms, made Xlib find 8:3 font names and that was about it.

You can download an SFN version now.
http://nanox-microwindows-nxlib-fltk-for-dos.googlecode.com/files/DilloDos-beta1-SFN.zip

Georg Potthast
glennmcc

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North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
16.11.2011, 00:42

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> Ok, ok, constant dropping wears away a stone - I had also observed that
> DOSLFN seems to slow things down. I looked what it would take to implement
> SFN support and it was not that complicated as expected. Just changed 20
> subprograms, made Xlib find 8:3 font names and that was about it.
>
> You can download an SFN version now.
> http://nanox-microwindows-nxlib-fltk-for-dos.googlecode.com/files/DilloDos-beta1-SFN.zip
>
Thank you Georg,

This one works even better than the 1st :)

Two points....

Can't seem to figure-out how to change font sizes.

Can't seem to figure-out how to view any local files such-as....

file:///c:/html/somefile.htm
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
16.11.2011, 04:33

@ glennmcc
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> Two points....
>
> Can't seem to figure-out how to change font sizes.
> Can't seem to figure-out how to view any local files such-as....
Thanks, I have intention to path LFNs in binary but you was faster :)
It's better now. But I can confirm the above problems. font_factor in RC file is ignored (other option like windows position works) ans I cannot open local files. How the / is mapped internally? Can I use path like G:/web/...htm ?

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
glennmcc

Homepage E-mail

North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
16.11.2011, 05:53

@ RayeR
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> > Two points....
> >
> > Can't seem to figure-out how to change font sizes.
> > Can't seem to figure-out how to view any local files such-as....
>
> Thanks, I have intention to path LFNs in binary but you was faster :)
> It's better now. But I can confirm the above problems. font_factor in RC
> file is ignored (other option like windows position works) ans I cannot
> open local files. How the / is mapped internally? Can I use path like
> G:/web/...htm ?
Ah ha... got the 1st problem fixed by editing dillo.bat to point
everything to drive C: instead of drive E:

Now font_factor does indeed change the font sizes.

But... this brings-up another point.

In dillo.bat the ENV variable TEMP is set to C:\DILLODOS

Since many DOS programs save temporary files into the dir
pointed to by $TEMP$ ... after running DilloDOS those other DOS programs
will be putting their temp files into C:\DILLODOS instead of into C:\TEMP

Soooo.... I add one more line at the bottom of dillo.bat
to reset the temp dir back to c:\temp

@echo off
rem set screen resolution to 800x600 16 bit
set NANOSCR=1024 768 565
set WATTCP.CFG=c:\DILLODOS\ETC
set ETC=c:\ETC
set HOME=c:\DILLODOS
rem set dillodos as the current directory
set TEMP=c:\DILLODOS
rem start dillo from the bin directory and allow for command line options
bin\dillo.exe %1 %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8 %9 >DEBUG.TXT
set temp=c:\temp
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
16.11.2011, 06:05

@ glennmcc
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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There's some mess with env vars and paths...
I also don't like to point generic temp to dillo directory so I left it on my system default H:\TEMP I observed it created directory H:\ETC regardless on env. var ETC. I slightly modified the exe from "/etc/fltk/" to "./etc/" so it then create etc as H:\TEMP\ETC instead of in root dir.

So it seem's that Dillo sets its internal root according to drive specified in TEMP env var: TEMP=H:\TEMP -> /=H:\

I aslo tried to download some file but it couln't be saved

Mouse wheel don't scroll

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
16.11.2011, 06:15

@ RayeR
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> So it seem's that Dillo sets its internal root according to drive specified
> in TEMP env var: TEMP=H:\TEMP -> /=H:\
Yes I'm right. TEMP needs to be really set to dillo directory to work. But it would be better to use different env var and leave TEMP as is.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
16.11.2011, 07:59

@ RayeR
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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The points mentioned: no download, no loading of pages from disk and no mouse wheel support are mentioned as current limitations in the User Guide.

I also mention in the User Guide that dillo.bat needs to be edited. In the new archive I included a dilloc.bat file which assumes c: as the current drive.

I have not observed yet that another program used the temp directory so I set it to the dillo directory to keep all in one place.

You could change the setting of the temp environment variable in the dillo.bat file to e.g. \temp before starting Dillo. I will check if Dillo uses that directory then and if not make it do that.

Georg
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
16.11.2011, 10:18

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> The points mentioned: no download, no loading of pages from disk and no
> mouse wheel support are mentioned as current limitations in the User
> Guide.
Hehe, we are too excited of new browser to do RTFM :-D

But I still think that redirecting TEMP to a program directory is not good idea. I have some garbage there: MAC.BAT, NC.IN$, NCFF~.TMP, NCTMP.TMP, SYSTEM.~NI, W32DHCP.TMP (from TCP/IP stack and Norton Commander) and I rather have it in temp. Also as I mentioned the ETC env. var doesn't have any effect. And maybe HOME too.
I also note that problem with slow mouse over input array has gone, maybe due to buffered_drawing=2

But I have another problem when browsing pages with lot of JPEGs (my photogallery) dillo suddenly crashed.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
16.11.2011, 19:37

@ RayeR
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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Well, I checked it now. Dillo just reads the temp environment variable. If you do not like it set to the Dillo directory you can change that in the dillo.bat file or remove it from there. Dillo will run in any case.

Georg
bretjohn

Homepage E-mail

Rio Rancho, NM,
16.11.2011, 17:30

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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Just as an FYI, %TEMP% is often (and probably really should be) set to a RAM Disk or something similar that is completely obliterated during a reboot. In addition, %TEMP% (and/or %TMP%)) should not be set by a batch file or program unless it doesn't yet exist -- changing it if it already exists is a no-no. %TEMP% and %TMP% are "system-level" variables, not program-specific variables.
glennmcc

Homepage E-mail

North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
15.11.2011, 00:53

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> I can announce that there is another graphical web browser available for
> DOS. The Dillo browser has been ported to DOS now. You can download the
> first beta here:
>
> Dillo
> for DOS
>
> As I posted in this forum recently I ported the FLTK toolkit to DOS. Based
> on that I could port the Dillo GUI to DOS. Benjamin Johnson, who ported
> Dillo to Windows joined me and so this beta is available now based on Dillo
> for Windows.
>
> Georg Potthast
>


Works like a charm !

Thank you !!!
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
15.11.2011, 01:08

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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Nice, I'm going to test it. What TCP/IP library is based on? WATT or SWSOCKS?

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
15.11.2011, 05:04

@ RayeR
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> Nice, I'm going to test it. What TCP/IP library is based on? WATT or
> SWSOCKS?
Oh I see WATT...

When I was writing my 1st post in Dillo it crashed when I tried to copy written text into clipboard before send it (to prevent loss) but got lost due to crash :P
So I will not repeat this now and see what happen after click on submit :)

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
15.11.2011, 05:07

@ RayeR
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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Well. it passed. I just wanted to note minor issue with mouse - when moving mouse cursor over text input array like this I'm typing in or address line it signifacantly slow-down to ~2FPS. When I move cursor outside it starts to move smoooth and fast. Tested on MSDOS 6.22, ctmouse, jemmex, MSnet TCP/IP stack.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
Deniska

Homepage E-mail

16.11.2011, 15:16

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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Thank you! This is a great achievement! The browser seems to work well for me with many websites. However, is there a way to select a character encoding? Are such features supported? Also I have noticed that relatively large websites take a long time to render. For example, I have waited a long time to render www.lenta.ru. Whilst it was loading, the mouse cursor was doing around 1 FPS, and the program was not responding to the mouse button clicks.

Regarding long file names - I personally do not see them being a problem. I agree SFN would be nice, but using them is hell. It has been a long time since I have permanently included doslfn in my AUTOEXEC.BAT. Note that you should load your disk cache afterwards (not before) for LFNs access to be of reasonable speed.
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
16.11.2011, 19:56

@ Deniska
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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Dillo currently does not support extended characters. I did mention that in the User Guide. However, I will see to add that since I want to get German Umlauts as well.

www.lenta.ru has 225 images so Dillo for DOS needs quite some time for that. If you move the mouse a tiny bit while waiting the image counter will be updated more quickly.

While downloading a page that gets the main share of the processors time so the GUI is not very responsive then.

Georg
Deniska

Homepage E-mail

17.11.2011, 12:58

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> Dillo currently does not support extended characters.

Apparently extended characters are supported. I saw screenshots of Dillo from the official website containing Chinese and Cyrillic characters, e.g. http://www.dillo.org/screenshots/http_lang.png
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
17.11.2011, 21:04

@ Deniska
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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I meant Dillo for DOS does not support these characters.

Georg
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
17.11.2011, 23:15

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> I meant Dillo for DOS does not support these characters.

Where's the limitation? There are not such font chararacters a tall or just some encoding is needed? I can see that some czech words with diacritic are ok some don't.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
18.11.2011, 08:15

@ RayeR
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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The main limitation is my abilitiy to look into all the issues raised at the same time. I have to get UTF8 to work with the DOS version for that. The font currently used contains some extended characters but apparently not all.

Georg
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
19.11.2011, 01:52

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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BTW why my homepage is displayed with this strange textcolor?
[image]

It should be TEXT="#F0F0F0" - close to white

I suspect if there's some color override in DILLORC but not (only bg_color and contrast_visited_color)

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
glennmcc

Homepage E-mail

North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
19.11.2011, 04:06

@ RayeR
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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> BTW why my homepage is displayed with this strange textcolor?
> [image]
>
> It should be TEXT="#F0F0F0" - close to white
>
> I suspect if there's some color override in DILLORC but not (only bg_color
> and contrast_visited_color)
Under.. Tools/Preferences/General ...
be sure the box is unchecked next to "Darken white backgounds"

A darkened backgound _might_ also effect text color.

Also hit the 'Browsing' tab and have a look at the style sheet settings.
ron

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
19.11.2011, 01:52

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

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FWIW: Dillo SFN is now working satisfactorily for me. Settings work, bookmarks work, there are no mouse problems, no unnecessary delays.

As far as I am concerned, changes to fonts are not important.

Downloads (using wget) would make Dillo even better, but that is the only major improvement of consequence. :)

Good work Georg !
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
16.11.2011, 19:59

@ georgpotthast
 

Please read the User Guide

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I very much appreciate that Dillo for DOS is tested and questions asked here.

But it turns out that half the questions were already answered in the three-page User Guide which comes in the ZIP archive.

So please take the time to read these three pages.

Georg

Sorry, I did not want to attach this message here it should have gone way up.
Doug

E-mail

17.11.2011, 04:56

@ georgpotthast
 

Please read the User Guide

Post reply

Greg -

First - a big note of appreciation for your work on Dillo! It's always a tremendous (and astonishing) thing to see DOS apps still being developed in 2011! (Hell, it's even good to see apps *ported* to DOS. :ok:) That's 30 years since it's birth!

Second - i actually *did* read the PDF manual! :-D And took a look at -- and edited -- the batch file.

Speaking of which, i have a question. In the batch-file line:

  set NANOSCR=1024 768 565

it's obvious what the "1024" and "768" are for. But what does the "565" mean?

Another big thanks for changing the code to SFNs. (LFNs, forward slashes in path names, and mixed-case command lines in unix ports DRIVE ME NUTZ! But not so nuts as to not appreciate the port.) The mouse movement is now much smoother too.

I haven't been able to test much with Dillo, as i do not have DOS access to the internet setup (i'll probably be using it mostly to display local files). But overall, Dillo is looking good!

- Doug B.
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
17.11.2011, 08:38
(edited by georgpotthast, 17.11.2011, 12:24)

@ Doug
 

NANOSCR environment variable

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Doug,

thank you for your comments on the Dillo port!

yes, the nanoscr variable is documented in another document of mine:

Quote:

There is an environment variable which Nano-X reads and which allows to set the screen resolution and pixel type. This variable is called "NANOSCR" which is defined as:

NANOSCR=[SCREEN_WIDTH] [SCREEN_HEIGHT] [SCREEN_PIXTYPE]

For SCREEN_PIXTYPE the following values are valid: 8888 for 32bit, 888 for 24bit, 565 for 16bit and 8 for 8bit. An example would be:
"set NANOSCR=800 600 565" for 800x660 and TRUECOLOR565

The strange numbers are the values nano-x uses internally and could be extended to even more pixtypes. *AND* 8 bit does not work since I have problems with palette mode. 24 bit is not supported by my graphics card.

I usually set it to 16 bit to be able to make screenshots with SNARF.

The screen_width and screen_height have to be set to values supported by the VESA mode of your graphics card.

I have to add that to the User Guide ;-)

Regards

Georg Potthast



> Greg -
>
> First - a big note of appreciation for your work on Dillo! It's always a
> tremendous (and astonishing) thing to see DOS apps still being developed in
> 2011! (Hell, it's even good to see apps *ported* to DOS. :ok:) That's 30
> years since it's birth!
>
> Second - i actually *did* read the PDF manual! :-D And took a look at --
> and edited -- the batch file.
>
> Speaking of which, i have a question. In the batch-file line:
>
> set NANOSCR=1024 768 565
>
> it's obvious what the "1024" and "768" are for. But what does the "565"
> mean?
>
> Another big thanks for changing the code to SFNs. (LFNs, forward slashes
> in path names, and mixed-case command lines in unix ports DRIVE ME NUTZ!
> But not so nuts as to not appreciate the port.) The mouse movement is now
> much smoother too.
>
> I haven't been able to test much with Dillo, as i do not have DOS access to
> the internet setup (i'll probably be using it mostly to display local
> files). But overall, Dillo is looking good!
>
> - Doug B.
Doug

E-mail

17.11.2011, 16:49

@ georgpotthast
 

NANOSCR environment variable

Post reply

> NANOSCR=[SCREEN_WIDTH] [SCREEN_HEIGHT] [SCREEN_PIXTYPE]
>
> For SCREEN_PIXTYPE the following values are valid: 8888 for 32bit, 888 for
> 24bit, 565 for 16bit and 8 for 8bit. An example would be:
> "set NANOSCR=800 600 565" for 800x660 and TRUECOLOR565
>
> The strange numbers are the values nano-x uses internally and could be
> extended to even more pixtypes. *AND* 8 bit does not work since I have
> problems with palette mode.

Ok, thanks for the reply. I guess i'll just leave it at 565 (for 16-bit) then.

> Regards
>
> Georg Potthast
And i apologize for calling you "Greg" in my previous. I was gonna re-check before i posted, but duhhh.... :-|
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
17.11.2011, 23:22

@ Doug
 

NANOSCR environment variable

Post reply

> Ok, thanks for the reply. I guess i'll just leave it at 565 (for 16-bit)
> then.

I didn't read it but guessed right thats a pixel format describing how many bits are used for RGB. I tried also 8888 (32-bit RGBA) but it runs slower on my nVidia than 16-bit HiColor. My VESA code run faster in 32bit mode because no pixel packing/unpacking overghead.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
DOS386

20.11.2011, 04:14

@ georgpotthast
 

DILLO

Post reply

> announce that there is another graphical web browser available for DOS.
> The Dillo browser has been ported to DOS now. You can download
Thanks :-)

> I usually set it to 16 bit to be able to make screenshots with SNARF.
What about a built-in screenshot feature ?

It works partially ... but uploads don't work (they do work in Dillo-Win32).

---
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the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
20.11.2011, 17:18

@ DOS386
 

DILLO

Post reply

> What about a built-in screenshot feature ?
I think it's not necessary that every DOS program have buil-in SS. Snarf works fine...

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
DOS386

12.12.2011, 04:17

@ RayeR
 

DILLO | SS SA SO ... ...

Post reply

> > What about a built-in screenshot feature ?
> I think it's not necessary that every DOS program have buil-in SS. Snarf works fine
YES, but it's intrusive and hacky, "disables" LFB, and unkickable ...

PS: Thanks to Benjamin and Georg, I'll test

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
26.11.2011, 03:32

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

This is Benjamin Johnson (the Dillo-Win32 developer). I just wanted to mention I have a new build up based on the latest Windows version; you can get it here:

http://dillo-win32.sourceforge.net/DOS/dil30p8b.zip

This build should fix downloads, local files, and most of the other current issues. Dillo's own files all use SFN-safe names, though downloads can use long filenames if they're available. If you see any new issues, of course, please let me know!

While I'm at it, I'll try to respond to some of the points in this thread:

> Two points....
>
> Can't seem to figure-out how to change font sizes.
There's currently no user interface for that, though as others have mentioned you can set font_factor manually in your dillorc.

(Both FLTK and Dillo have made a mess of font handling, which is why there's currently no option. I've been meaning to fix that in some future release.)

> Can't seem to figure-out how to view any local files such-as....
>
> file:///c:/html/somefile.htm
I've added long-overdue file:/ protocol support to the latest build. Now it should work with both standard DOS paths and file:/ URLs.

> BTW why my homepage is displayed with this strange textcolor?
That looks like a bug in either FLTK or the Nano-X display driver; it's not a problem with Dillo itself. I've noticed similar behavior on several other sites.

> Downloads (using wget) would make Dillo even better, but that is the only
> major improvement of consequence. :)
Downloads should work in the current version.

> > Dillo currently does not support extended characters.
>
> Apparently extended characters are supported. I saw screenshots of Dillo
> from the official website containing Chinese and Cyrillic characters, e.g.
> http://www.dillo.org/screenshots/http_lang.png
Dillo does support extended characters, as does FLTK. It appears that Nano-X does not, which is why extended characters don't render correctly.

(FLTK for DOS uses the same source code as the X11 version; you can build FLTK and Dillo from the same source code on Unix, and extended characters will work. That's why I suspect it's a Nano-X bug.)

> What about a built-in screenshot feature ?
You might ask Georg about adding that to Nano-X. I don't anticipate adding a screenshot feature to Dillo itself, since I'd like to avoid platform-specific features, and Dillo does not have (or need) a screenshot feature on other platforms.
ron

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
26.11.2011, 07:03

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

> This is Benjamin Johnson (the Dillo-Win32 developer). I just wanted to
> mention I have a new build up based on the latest Windows version; you can
> get it here:
>
> http://dillo-win32.sourceforge.net/DOS/dil30p8b.zip
Does that contain the binary, or is it just the sources ?

---
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obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
26.11.2011, 16:50

@ ron
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

Hi Ron,

> Does that contain the binary, or is it just the sources ?
The link I posted contains the binary. The sources are available here:

http://dillo-win32.sourceforge.net/DOS/dil30p8s.zip

I also have build instructions and dependency packages (binary and source) if you're interested in building it yourself:

http://dillo-win32.sourceforge.net/DOS/BUILD.html

Note you do not need to apply dillow32.dif if you're using the sources in dil30p8s.zip; it's already applied. (The instructions assume you're using unmodified Dillo-Win32 sources.)
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
26.11.2011, 18:13
(edited by georgpotthast, 26.11.2011, 21:38)

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

Thank you for adding file downloads and the loading of web pages from disk Ben!

These major enhancements required to make a new beta version available on my website:
DilloDos beta 2

The beta version also includes fonts that display extended characters. It should allow to display Rayer's and Deniska's web pages.

Georg
glennmcc

Homepage E-mail

North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
26.11.2011, 22:57

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

> Thank you for adding file downloads and the loading of web pages from disk
> Ben!
>
> These major enhancements required to make a new beta version available on
> my website:
> DilloDos
> beta 2
>
> The beta version also includes fonts that display extended characters. It
> should allow to display Rayer's and Deniska's web pages.
>
> Georg
Fantastic !!!

Thank you !! to both Georg & Benjamin.

Local file viewing works ... file downloading works :))

One comment.....

DilloDOS beta2 seems to be quite slow on downloads.

Test download file... http://www.pctools.com/downloads/ptinstall.exe

DilloDOS beta2 == 100kb/sec

DOS Arachne v1.95 == 300kb/sec

--
glennmcc
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
26.11.2011, 23:15

@ glennmcc
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

Hi Glen,

yes, this is an issue that we have to look in. At the moment you may be able to speed up the transfer by moving the mouse or hitting a key as mentioned in the user guide.

We have to profile the event system.

Georg
ron

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
27.11.2011, 01:31

@ glennmcc
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

> Local file viewing works ... file downloading works :))
Confirmed ! Excellent !!

---
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Tadpole Tunes http://www.tadpoletunes.com
Sna Keo Il http://www.tadpoletunes.com/sna_keo_il/
ron

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
27.11.2011, 01:51

@ glennmcc
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

> Local file viewing works ... file downloading works :))
Confirmed ! Excellent !!

---
AUSREG Consultancy http://www.ausreg.com
Tadpole Tunes http://www.tadpoletunes.com
Sna Keo Il http://www.tadpoletunes.com/sna_keo_il/
ron

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
27.11.2011, 01:59

@ ron
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

> > Local file viewing works ... file downloading works :))
>
> Confirmed ! Excellent !!
Oops ! Sorry about the double post. :(

I did those with Dillo, and I did not see either of them displayed until I fired up Arachne.
Does Dillo need to "reload" after sending a post ?
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
27.11.2011, 06:13

@ glennmcc
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

> One comment.....
>
> DilloDOS beta2 seems to be quite slow on downloads.
>
> Test download file... http://www.pctools.com/downloads/ptinstall.exe
>
> DilloDOS beta2 == 100kb/sec
>
> DOS Arachne v1.95 == 300kb/sec
I've noticed that as well. I've also noticed Dillo on DOS has abnormally high CPU usage, particularly when pages are downloading. (It's constantly near 100%, whereas the Windows version rarely breaks single digits, even on my mostly-dead Pentium-133 laptop.)

Together these problems lead me to suspect a bug somewhere in the network code. The most likely culprit is FLTK's fl_wait() function in src/Fl_x.cxx, which among other things triggers FLTK events in response to network socket activity. That function has caused problems in the past on Windows, and my experience is there's nothing like a broken select() loop to slow your network code and send CPU usage skyrocketing.

(I doubt it's a bug in Dillo itself, since the Windows version gave 1mb/sec speeds here with no problems. And while it's possible the download speeds and CPU usage are separate issues, Dillo doesn't do much intensive processing elsewhere, and I can't think of any other explanation that perfectly covers all the symptoms.)

Unfortunately I haven't had much chance to look closely at the code myself, but I thought I'd share my guess if Georg or anyone else wants to take a look.
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
27.11.2011, 06:17

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

Sorry for the duplicate posts; I've been having a bit of trouble getting used to this forum software.
ron

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
27.11.2011, 06:43

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

> Sorry for the duplicate posts; I've been having a bit of trouble getting
> used to this forum software.
Me too.

BTW: The local file function seems to be limited to A:/, B:/, C:/ and D:/.
I am running Dillo on drive F:/ which the "local file" function cannot access.
Any chance of adding drives F:/ and G:/ ?

Ron
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
27.11.2011, 18:20

@ ron
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

Hi Ron,

> BTW: The local file function seems to be limited to A:/, B:/, C:/ and
> D:/.
> I am running Dillo on drive F:/ which the "local file" function cannot
> access.
> Any chance of adding drives F:/ and G:/ ?
>
> Ron
The only limit I know of is in FLTK's file dialog, which lists all the drives from A: to %LASTDRIVE% (or E: if %LASTDRIVE% is not set). There isn't any limit coded in Dillo itself.

Does it work if you enter "F:\" (or file:/F|/, or any other variation) in the location bar?
ron

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
27.11.2011, 23:06

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

> The only limit I know of is in FLTK's file dialog, which lists all the
> drives from A: to %LASTDRIVE% (or E: if %LASTDRIVE% is not set). There
> isn't any limit coded in Dillo itself.
Last drive IS set - to K:

> Does it work if you enter "F:\" (or file:/F|/, or any other variation) in
> the location bar?
Yes it does work. And I could add drive F:\ to the bookmarks.

The question is why didn't Dillo identify drive F: as a valid thing to list in the "Open File" dialogue.
Drive F: is a hard disk DOS primary partition.

Haven't tried it yet with a CD loaded (would be drive G:) or with any USB memory sticks, or with a RAM drive.

Ron
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
27.11.2011, 23:33

@ ron
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

Hi Ron,

> The question is why didn't Dillo identify drive F: as a valid thing to
> list in the "Open File" dialogue.
> Drive F: is a hard disk DOS primary partition.
>
> Haven't tried it yet with a CD loaded (would be drive G:) or with any
> USB memory sticks, or with a RAM drive.
>
> Ron
FLTK's file dialogs are badly broken on DOS. I'd be amazed if you could get a file to open from one at all; usually they'll cause Dillo to crash long before you reach that point.

I have been working on a fix, but I haven't gotten too far yet because of schoolwork and other commitments.
ron

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
28.11.2011, 00:44

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

Hi Ben,
> FLTK's file dialogs are badly broken on DOS. I'd be amazed if you could
> get a file to open from one at all; usually they'll cause Dillo to crash
> long before you reach that point.
No. No crash. It works just fine. I am using Georg's latest port.

I can type a local path into the URL line, use the "Local file" dialogue or create a bookmark to a local drive - all of these work. I have added my much-used Arachne hotlist.htm to Dillo's bookmarks, and that gives me access to a huge selection of websites for Dillo to try.

My query, only a query, was why didn't Dillo offer drive F: in the "local file" dialogue. Dillo is running on drive F: !

---
AUSREG Consultancy http://www.ausreg.com
Tadpole Tunes http://www.tadpoletunes.com
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obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
28.11.2011, 02:45

@ ron
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

Hi Ron,

> No. No crash. It works just fine. I am using Georg's latest port.
>
> I can type a local path into the URL line, use the "Local file" dialogue
> or create a bookmark to a local drive - all of these work. I have added my
> much-used Arachne hotlist.htm to Dillo's bookmarks, and that gives me
> access to a huge selection of websites for Dillo to try.
>
> My query, only a query, was why didn't Dillo offer drive F: in the
> "local file" dialogue. Dillo is running on drive F: !
It's good to know the file dialogs are working. Those have caused me so much trouble in the past...

Offhand, I'm not sure why Dillo doesn't offer drive F: in the list. It should work in my latest FLTK build, although it's possible that Georg is using a different build. (I couldn't get his original FLTK sources to compile, so I ended up re-patching the code myself.)

By the way, the main difference between Georg's build and mine is he's added some IMHO rather questionable hacks to the network code, and removed some debugging information. He also uses a different configuration directory, for reasons I'm not entirely sure I understand. Otherwise they should be identical feature-wise.
favero

29.11.2011, 14:05

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

> I've noticed that as well. I've also noticed Dillo on DOS has abnormally
> high CPU usage, particularly when pages are downloading. (It's constantly
> near 100%, whereas the Windows version rarely breaks single digits, even on
> my mostly-dead Pentium-133 laptop.)
It would be nice if unnecessary CPU usage on DOS could be fixed.

By the way, I've been using Dillo-DOS (under FreeDOS) quite a lot. My thanks to Benjamin and Georg!
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
29.11.2011, 16:59

@ favero
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

Hi favero,

> It would be nice if unnecessary CPU usage on DOS could be fixed.
I am (slowly) working on that. The problem is, high CPU usage can be difficult to debug, especially when you're not intimately familiar with the platform. I've used DOS for years, but Dillo is my first real attempt at DOS programming, so I'm learning a lot of it as I go along.

As I mentioned in my last post, I suspect a bug in FLTK because that particular function has caused trouble before. Unfortunately I've been busy with schoolwork lately, and haven't had much chance to test that hypothesis. And that is just an educated guess -- to be honest, the main reason I even noticed the problem was because I heard my laptop's fan switching on!

I did talk with Georg, and he claims the CPU usage isn't a problem because (paraphrasing) DOS is a single-user system and wasn't designed for efficient hardware usage, or something to that effect. I see two problems with this. One, it's a dubious argument at best, and two, high CPU usage isn't only a problem in and of itself; it's usually symptomatic of a much deeper problem, especially in a program like Dillo that doesn't do particularly heavy processing.

But yes, long story short, it bothers me too, and I am looking into it. :-)
Rugxulo

Homepage

Usono,
01.12.2011, 06:06

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

> Hi favero,
>
> > It would be nice if unnecessary CPU usage on DOS could be fixed.
>
> As I mentioned in my last post, I suspect a bug in FLTK because that
> particular function has caused trouble before. Unfortunately I've been
> busy with schoolwork lately, and haven't had much chance to test that
> hypothesis. And that is just an educated guess -- to be honest, the main
> reason I even noticed the problem was because I heard my laptop's fan
> switching on!
>
> I did talk with Georg, and he claims the CPU usage isn't a problem because
> (paraphrasing) DOS is a single-user system and wasn't designed for
> efficient hardware usage, or something to that effect. I see two problems
> with this. One, it's a dubious argument at best, and two, high CPU usage
> isn't only a problem in and of itself; it's usually symptomatic of a much
> deeper problem, especially in a program like Dillo that doesn't do
> particularly heavy processing.
It's probably more noticeable in VMs (NTVDM or real emulation or virtualization). VirtualBox lets you cap usage to a certain percent. And there are various DOS TSRs to minimize CPU usage.

> But yes, long story short, it bothers me too, and I am looking into it. :-)
Take a look at __dpmi_yield() mentioned in DPMI.H. IIRC, that's what various things (Bash, Mined, TDE) use to moderate everything. This supposedly (?) works in various places, Novell DOS 7, Win 3.x, OS/2, NTVDM, and presumably DOSEMU. (Japheth is the expert, ask him, I can't easily prove any of this.)
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
01.12.2011, 19:55

@ Rugxulo
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

Hi Rugxulo,

> It's probably more noticeable in VMs (NTVDM or real emulation or
> virtualization). VirtualBox lets you cap usage to a certain percent. And
> there are various DOS TSRs to minimize CPU usage.
It's definitely more noticeable in QEMU, though of course that's a full-blown emulator, so it's going to be slower. Dillo on NTVDM is pretty close to running natively on Windows, apart from the CPU usage and slowdowns.

> Take a look at __dpmi_yield() mentioned in DPMI.H. IIRC, that's what
> various things (Bash, Mined, TDE) use to moderate everything. This
> supposedly (?) works in various places, Novell DOS 7, Win 3.x, OS/2, NTVDM,
> and presumably DOSEMU. (Japheth is the expert, ask him, I can't easily
> prove any of this.)
Thanks for the tip -- I'll check it out when I get a chance.
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
27.11.2011, 06:14

@ glennmcc
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

-removed duplicate post-
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
27.11.2011, 06:14

@ glennmcc
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS - beta2

Post reply

-removed duplicate post-
ron

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
26.11.2011, 22:26

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

> > Does that contain the binary, or is it just the sources ?
>
> The link I posted contains the binary. The sources are available here:
Sorry ! Silly question. At 30 MB it has to be the Windows version.

I don't do Windows, just DOS and Linux.

---
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georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
26.11.2011, 22:53

@ ron
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

If you follow Ben's link it is 2.9 MB and the DOS version he compiled.

Georg

> > > Does that contain the binary, or is it just the sources ?
> >
> > The link I posted contains the binary. The sources are available here:
>
> Sorry ! Silly question. At 30 MB it has to be the Windows version.
>
> I don't do Windows, just DOS and Linux.
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
27.11.2011, 05:36

@ ron
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

> Sorry ! Silly question. At 30 MB it has to be the Windows version.
>
> I don't do Windows, just DOS and Linux.
Well, give or take about 29 MB ;-)

[image]

The DOS version is actually the largest of them, since unlike the Windows or Unix version, it also includes the complete window system and graphics/input drivers. (It also has much higher memory and CPU usage, so if anyone actually wants to run Dillo on the mythical 486 and dial-up mentioned on their homepage, Dillo-Win32 on Windows 95 is still probably your best bet.)

Of course, it's not really a fair comparison since I've been doing the Windows version longer, and thus it's much more aggressively optimized; I just thought it was an interesting point of trivia.
Rugxulo

Homepage

Usono,
27.11.2011, 15:23

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

EDIT: Almost forgot ... first things first, big thanks to you guys, Ben and Georg, for your excellent efforts.

> > Sorry ! Silly question. At 30 MB it has to be the Windows version.
> >
> Well, give or take about 29 MB ;-)
>
> The DOS version is actually the largest of them, since unlike the Windows
> or Unix version, it also includes the complete window system and
> graphics/input drivers. (It also has much higher memory and CPU usage, so
> if anyone actually wants to run Dillo on the mythical
> 486 and dial-up mentioned on
> their homepage, Dillo-Win32 on Windows 95 is still probably your best
> bet.)
You'd have to already have Win95, which ain't free/libre. I'm not picking on it, just saying, it's harder to find these days. Honestly, choice of OS matters so little in this case, more important is network drivers.

As for RAM, you're using CWSDPMI, which can swap 'til the cows come home. (BTW, you're using here old r5 from 2000, not r7 from 2010, any reason? r7 works fine for almost everything and is better / faster for big RAM machines. It's considered stable by CWS himself, so I suggest you upgrade, heh.)

> Of course, it's not really a fair comparison since I've been doing the
> Windows version longer, and thus it's much more aggressively optimized; I
> just thought it was an interesting point of trivia.
The higher footprint for DOS is due to the same reasoning: static linking. It's not that DJGPP doesn't have otherwise, but only barely.

For one thing, DJGPP still uses COFF, which clearly isn't a focus for GNU BinUtils optimizations. All their good work seems to go towards ELF.

Secondly, DJGPP 2.03p2 "stable" is still recommended by some people because 2.04 was never finished. The former has only weak DXE1, the latter has better DXE3, which means dlsym, dlopen, etc. are supported (more or less, though latest GCCs 4.6.x seem to have broken this somehow). See Juan's /beta/ port of Lua 5.1.4.

DJGPP's stub loads DPMI if none found and also puts the entire .EXE into memory. I'm not 100% sure on the details, but I guess? a DPMI host could demand page (and perhaps DPMIONE does, dunno), but most don't, e.g. CWSDPMI. So yeah, it loads the entire thing. I think DJGPP v1 did it better, but with v2 they went completely for DPMI (which is why a buggy NTVDM is so painful) to handle their own memory (instead of home-grown extender).

Anyways, DJELF is on the mirrors, so if you really wanted, you could compile with that as it fully supports ELF shared objects. I'm not honestly sure if that will save memory here, as I don't know what the stub does (probably same ol' load all into RAM), but at least the local disk footprint would be smaller (though if Dillo is all you're using it won't save anything as it'll still need everything libc-related on disk). Or use UPX (sorry, marcov). :-P

Honestly, I don't consider 5 MB that big a deal in this day and age, esp. since GCC's CC1 is now like 8 or 10 MB (can't remember), also why it uses so much RAM these days compared to olden times (vaguely annoying but still works, more or less).
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
27.11.2011, 18:58

@ Rugxulo
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

Hi Rugxulo,

> EDIT: Almost forgot ... first things first, big thanks to you guys, Ben and
> Georg, for your excellent efforts.
:-)

> You'd have to already have Win95, which ain't free/libre. I'm not picking
> on it, just saying, it's harder to find these days. Honestly, choice of OS
> matters so little in this case, more important is network drivers.
I wasn't trying to push one OS over another -- I was just making an observation about Dillo's current performance. But you do raise a valid point. DOS is a good target for Dillo because of FreeDOS, which is both free/libre and much lighter than any Unix system could ever be.

(I also try to test Dillo regularly on ReactOS. Unfortunately it's not quite usable yet due to some bugs in their GDI implementation, though I have filed a bug report -- hopefully it will work better in their next release.)

Dillo-Win32 really was a stupid name choice on my part, considering I try to make my code as portable as possible -- the same code compiles and runs on Windows, DOS, OS X, and Unix (and I have binary packages available for most of them). How many other browsers can claim to support every major operating system of the last 20 years? ;-)

> As for RAM, you're using CWSDPMI, which can swap 'til the cows come home.
> (BTW, you're using here old r5 from 2000, not r7 from 2010, any reason? r7
> works fine for almost everything and is better / faster for big RAM
> machines. It's considered stable by CWS himself, so I suggest you upgrade,
> heh.)
I use r5 because that's what was marked "stable" on the DJGPP site. I'm not too experienced with DJGPP or DOS programming, so I've been fairly conservative with my package choices to err on the side of stability.

Having the ability to swap is nice, but I'd rather avoid the need to if at all possible.

> > Of course, it's not really a fair comparison since I've been doing the
> > Windows version longer, and thus it's much more aggressively optimized;
> I
> > just thought it was an interesting point of trivia.
>
> The higher footprint for DOS is due to the same reasoning: static linking.
> It's not that DJGPP doesn't have otherwise, but only barely.
The Windows version is also statically-linked, so I can distribute it as a standalone executable. It's also UPX-compressed -- uncompressed it's around 2.2 MB, I think -- while the DOS version is not currently compressed.

One other thing adding to the DOS version's footprint is OpenSSL. The Windows version links to CyaSSL, which is much lighter, but I don't know how well it supports DOS. (HTTPS support is present in the DOS build, though unfortunately I haven't yet gotten it to work.)

> For one thing, DJGPP still uses COFF, which clearly isn't a focus for GNU
> BinUtils optimizations. All their good work seems to go towards ELF.
>
> Secondly, DJGPP 2.03p2 "stable" is still recommended by some people because
> 2.04 was never finished. The former has only weak DXE1, the latter has
> better DXE3, which means dlsym, dlopen, etc. are supported (more or less,
> though latest GCCs 4.6.x seem to have broken this somehow). See Juan's
> /beta/ port of Lua 5.1.4.
>
> DJGPP's stub loads DPMI if none found and also puts the entire .EXE into
> memory. I'm not 100% sure on the details, but I guess? a DPMI host could
> demand page (and perhaps DPMIONE does, dunno), but most don't, e.g.
> CWSDPMI. So yeah, it loads the entire thing. I think DJGPP v1 did it
> better, but with v2 they went completely for DPMI (which is why a buggy
> NTVDM is so painful) to handle their own memory (instead of home-grown
> extender).
>
> Anyways, DJELF is on the mirrors, so if you really wanted, you could
> compile with that as it fully supports ELF shared objects. I'm not honestly
> sure if that will save memory here, as I don't know what the stub does
> (probably same ol' load all into RAM), but at least the local disk
> footprint would be smaller (though if Dillo is all you're using it won't
> save anything as it'll still need everything libc-related on disk). Or use
> UPX (sorry, marcov). :-P
Thanks for the information -- as I mentioned, most of the footprint is probably my own doing rather than DJGPP limitations, but it's good to know for future reference.

> Honestly, I don't consider 5 MB that big a deal in this day and age, esp.
> since GCC's CC1 is now like 8 or 10 MB (can't remember), also why it uses
> so much RAM these days compared to olden times (vaguely annoying but still
> works, more or less).
I'm just mildly obsessed with file size, that's all. My goal is to keep Dillo as small as possible, in keeping with the mainline project's objectives; when the Windows dillo.exe no longer fits on a floppy disk, I'll retire.
Rugxulo

Homepage

Usono,
27.11.2011, 20:33

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

> > You'd have to already have Win95, which ain't free/libre. I'm not
> picking
> > on it, just saying, it's harder to find these days. Honestly, choice of
> OS
> > matters so little in this case, more important is network drivers.
>
> I wasn't trying to push one OS over another -- I was just making an
> observation about Dillo's current performance.
I know, and please don't take it as criticism on my part. But it's true that most people don't run Win9x anymore, to them it's "old" and "dead" (no support). It's reputedly quite a beast to run on modern hardware anyways (SATA, memory limits, etc), so I've never tried. (Then again, pure DOS isn't exactly a cakewalk either.)

Also, I do have Win95 floppies (18?), but I don't think (know?) if it'll work on my USB floppy drive since I haven't tried. (May depend on BIOS, dunno, kinda silly that MS overformatted them, but when you have 18, can you blame them??)

So that's what I was thinking of.

> But you do raise a valid
> point. DOS is a good target for Dillo because of FreeDOS, which is both
> free/libre and much lighter than any Unix system could ever be.
The free/libre jab was only because some people are so overly zealous, so I took that as an excuse to half-heartedly promote FreeDOS, heh, which is so unloved by developers (and even GNU itself). Well, and mostly I was being pragmatic because you can literally download and copy FreeDOS anywhere, unlike Win95.

> (I also try to test Dillo regularly on
> ReactOS. Unfortunately it's not quite
> usable yet due to some bugs in their GDI implementation, though I have
> filed a bug report -- hopefully it will work better in their next
> release.)
Well, Win32 is much much more complex than FreeDOS, which admittedly isn't exactly simple either (lots of legacy). So yeah, they probably still consider themselves "alpha". But they've made good progress over the past few years, though I admit to not having the interest to play with it.

> Dillo-Win32 really was a stupid name choice on my part, considering I try
> to make my code as portable as possible -- the same code compiles and runs
> on Windows, DOS, OS X, and Unix (and I have binary packages available for
> most of them). How many other browsers can claim to support every major
> operating system of the last 20 years? ;-)
It's still kinda a shame that Firefox dropped Win9x so quickly. But that's life. Heck, even IE 10 will be Win7 only! I'm not sure I approve of all the modern web technologies, but I digress (again) ....

> I use r5 because that's what was marked "stable" on the DJGPP site. I'm
> not too experienced with DJGPP or DOS programming, so I've been fairly
> conservative with my package choices to err on the side of stability.
Heh. Okay, here's way more than you wanted to know:

CWSDPMI r5 was updated in 2008 with SSE support turned on by default, plus the three bugfixes from 2002, plus new contact info.

CWSDPMI r7 was updated in 2010 with 4 MB page support (faster) and thus supports up to 4 GB of RAM. With r5 you'd have to do weird things (swap to RAM disk?) for similar things, and it would be slower. CWS has called r7 "stable", and it is actually been suggested, to everyone, by the Zip Picker for quite a while now.

http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/zip-picker.html

v2misc/csdpmi7b.zip CWSDPMI - DPMI server 70 kb

> Having the ability to swap is nice, but I'd rather avoid the need to if at
> all possible.
You can disable it at runtime or permanently via CWSPARAM. Or use Japheth's HDPMI32, which is damn nice too. (N.B. HDPMI32 via GO32-V2 only reports 2.6 GB free for me, but CWSDPMI r7 via GO32-V2 reports 4 GB. But Seed7's compiler + gcc combo apparently works better with HDPMI32, go figure. Memory holes?)

> The Windows version is also statically-linked, so I can distribute it as a
> standalone executable. It's also UPX-compressed -- uncompressed it's
> around 2.2 MB, I think -- while the DOS version is not currently
> compressed.
As I just told Bernd (freedos-user) yesterday, here are the recommended options for UPXing it:

--best --lzma --all-filters (much much faster than --ultra-brute and 99% as good)
--best --lzma (if you're super duper impatient)
--best (if you don't want ANY few seconds of slowdown upon loading on an old 586 or only minimally under WinXP, whose NTVDM would then run Dillo/DOS much slower for some reason if UPX'd thus)

> One other thing adding to the DOS version's footprint is OpenSSL. The
> Windows version links to
> CyaSSL, which is much
> lighter, but I don't know how well it supports DOS. (HTTPS support
> is present in the DOS build, though unfortunately I haven't yet
> gotten it to work.)
I don't think any of us expect a miracle. The modern web is too complex, and that's even ignoring HTML 5 (ugh). So please, feel free to not stress about it. Anything is a blessing! Beggars really can't be choosers here.

> Thanks for the information -- as I mentioned, most of the footprint is
> probably my own doing rather than DJGPP limitations, but it's good to know
> for future reference.
I just wanted to be honest that such support does (mostly) exist, in case you would like to use it. Most don't, but again, a lot of people don't know it exists either.

> I'm just mildly obsessed with file size, that's all. My goal is to keep
> Dillo as small as possible, in keeping with the mainline project's
> objectives; when
> the Windows dillo.exe no longer fits on a floppy disk, I'll retire.
:rotfl: I sympathize, I really do.

Don't retire, just find a better compiler (and/or libc)! Or rewrite some stuff in asm. Don't think MinGW is the end-all-be-all. It's far from perfect (well, they all are).
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
27.11.2011, 22:21
(edited by obeythepenguin, 27.11.2011, 22:32)

@ Rugxulo
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

-
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
30.11.2011, 15:18
(edited by RayeR, 30.11.2011, 15:30)

@ Rugxulo
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

> Secondly, DJGPP 2.03p2 "stable" is still recommended by some people because
> 2.04 was never finished. The former has only weak DXE1, the latter has
> better DXE3, which means dlsym, dlopen, etc. are supported (more or less,
> though latest GCCs 4.6.x seem to have broken this somehow). See Juan's
> /beta/ port of Lua 5.1.4.
V 2.04 is not finished but there are recent updates of DJDEV 2.04 by author of new Hexen II engine and it seems to work fine. It's necessary to update if you want to use latest GCC 4.6.x correctly.

I use this updated DJDEV, GCC 4.6.2 and CWSDPMI 7 on PC with 4GB and it works fine.

>As I just told Bernd (freedos-user) yesterday, here are the recommended >options for UPXing it:
>--best --lzma --all-filters (much much faster than --ultra-brute and 99% as good)
>--best --lzma (if you're super duper impatient)
>--best (if you don't want ANY few seconds of slowdown upon loading on an old 586 or only minimally under
>WinXP, whose NTVDM would then run Dillo/DOS much slower for some reason if UPX'd thus)

If I remember well, there was warning about using --lzma compression because it's much slower to decompress (significant on slower machines). I personally use --best

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
Rugxulo

Homepage

Usono,
01.12.2011, 06:33

@ RayeR
 

DJDEV 2.04 "beta" (2003) and CVS

Post reply

(this thread is already too long, sorry!!, but just to clarify ...)

> V 2.04 is not finished but there are recent updates of DJDEV 2.04
2.04 is "beta", but they haven't had a release manager since then (Andrew Cottrell??). At one point [2009?] CWS almost (?) seemed to suggest I do it. (Uh ....) I have no idea how to do that (or anything)! The stock DJDEV204.ZIP is from late 2003 (approx. 8 years ago) though yes, some CVS updates have happened since then, just no official release. (IIRC, there are only 8 people with CVS access, and I'm certainly not one of them. To say that development has slowed and "almost" died is an understatement. It's been said that "nobody wanted it badly enough", and perhaps [almost definitely] I've noticed that some of them have "moved on" to other platforms. Most of the recent ports have been done by Juan, and I'm hugely thankful, but I'm surprised too.)

> by author
> of new Hexen II engine and it seems to work fine. It's necessary to update
> if you want to use latest GCC 4.6.x correctly.
Yes, Ozkan is one of the maintainers of Hexen 2 (which I finally purchased a used CD of just to test the full game, heh, 1997 id Tech 1 ftw!). It works in pure DOS now (and 1.5.1 was just released a few days ago) by clamping memory to 2 GB or less. (Previously it accidentally tried to malloc a negative number as it had lots of old hacks from when CWS tried to get Quake [DJGPP 2.00 beta 3] to run in Win95 in 16 MB or less.)

IIRC, all Ozkan did here was recompile one of the latest CVS releases (from Martin's page??), nothing else. It seems to work in Hexen 2, but I've not used his DJDEV CVS snapshot for rebuilding anything, so I don't know otherwise how good it is. ("if you want to use latest GCC 4.6.x correctly" ... I don't know what that means, and I halfway doubt it. It works, more or less, with stock 2.04 "beta" from 2003. I haven't checked, but I assume it was also compiled with similar library version. EDIT: Hmmm, no, apparently not, it must use Ozkan's compile. That's weird for an "official" DJGPP GCC release. BinUtils 2.21.1 still used stock 2.04.)

> I use this updated DJDEV, GCC 4.6.2 and CWSDPMI 7 on PC with 4GB and it
> works fine.
"Works fine" is very very generic. I'm not doubting you except from my own experience. IMO, DJGPP is rock solid ("like VMS", says CWS). I know CWS thinks highly of its "well-debugged code". Of course, Japheth would probably do a spittake if he read that. ;-) Some people are pickier than others. (cm dislikes CWSDPMI as buggy, for instance. I always thought it worked fine, or at least plenty good enough.)

I'm ashamed to admit that I had to get a new Win7 Core i5 (6 GB) machine because my old XP P4 machine (128 MB RAM ftw!) died. Does it work with native FreeDOS? More or less. Hexen 2 (now) works okay (without sound, natch), but other stuff (Seed7 compiler + GCC) has issues. In short, I'm not sure most (if any) DOS software was ever truly expected to handle 2 GB, much less 4 GB, or 6 GB. At least, r7 is the only one even noticing 4 GB, and it's got a few (newly-found) bugs. HDPMI32 only recognizes 2.6 GB or such (similar to largest free XMS block, ??), but even it is not flawless. Dunno, maybe it's this weird machine, maybe it's just some "dark corners" in various software, but it's certainly not perfect (sadly). Old classic CWSDPMI r5 has issues too (sees 1.8 GB), so nobody is safe. (And GCC hogging hundreds of megs of RAM just for silly optimizations doesn't help either.)
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
02.12.2011, 19:23

@ Rugxulo
 

DJDEV 2.04 "beta" (2003) and CVS

Post reply

> IIRC, all Ozkan did here was recompile one of the latest CVS releases (from
> Martin's page??), nothing else. It seems to work in Hexen 2, but I've not
> used his DJDEV CVS snapshot for rebuilding anything, so I don't know
> otherwise how good it is. ("if you want to use latest GCC 4.6.x correctly"
> ... I don't know what that means, and I halfway doubt it. It works, more or
> less, with stock 2.04 "beta" from 2003. I haven't checked, but I assume it
> was also compiled with similar library version. EDIT: Hmmm, no, apparently
> not, it must use Ozkan's compile. That's weird for an "official" DJGPP GCC
> release. BinUtils 2.21.1 still used stock 2.04.)
I had trouble with new gcc and old djdev because of old inline definition in system header files. It caused that new gcc didn't recognized inline attribute well and then linker failed to build because of multiple code of same function. This is one reason why I updated my djdev.

> I'm ashamed to admit that I had to get a new Win7 Core i5 (6 GB) machine
> because my old XP P4 machine (128 MB RAM ftw!) died. Does it work with
> native FreeDOS? More or less. Hexen 2 (now) works okay (without sound,
> natch), but other stuff (Seed7 compiler + GCC) has issues. In short, I'm
> not sure most (if any) DOS software was ever truly expected to handle 2 GB,
> much less 4 GB, or 6 GB. At least, r7 is the only one even noticing 4 GB,
> and it's got a few (newly-found) bugs.
I also have installed FreeDOS on my PC at work - i5-750. In basic it works and also I run DJGPP there without problem. Sometimes it happed that USB keyboard after boot is not responding. I guess it is, as Japhet would say, el-cheapo HP BIOS and it's USB legacy KB emulation. Also there's problem with LFB speed and MTRR settings but it may be my bug, I didn't have time to resolve it yet...

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
Japheth

Homepage

Germany (South),
27.11.2011, 10:47

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - local file as command line argument

Post reply

Hello,

> This build should fix downloads, local files, and most of the other current
> issues. Dillo's own files all use SFN-safe names, though downloads can use
> long filenames if they're available. If you see any new issues, of course,
> please let me know!
I did a few tests of the local files feature (using the Win32 version!).

When I start dillo with a plain file argument:

C:\TEMP>c:\dillo\dillo Manual.html

it tries to translate the argument to a full URL - file:/:\TEMP/Manual.html.

However, this is not quite correct; there's no "drive letter" in the URL, and hence the file isn't found by dillo. Firefox translates a command line argument to file:///C:/TEMP/Manual.html.

---
MS-DOS forever!
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
27.11.2011, 18:29

@ Japheth
 

Dillo - local file as command line argument

Post reply

Hi Japheth,

> I did a few tests of the local files feature (using the Win32 version!).
>
> When I start dillo with a plain file argument:
>
> C:\TEMP>c:\dillo\dillo Manual.html
>
> it tries to translate the argument to a full URL -
> file:/:\TEMP/Manual.html.
>
> However, this is not quite correct; there's no "drive letter" in the URL,
> and hence the file isn't found by dillo. Firefox translates a command line
> argument to file:///C:/TEMP/Manual.html.
I'm still working out some bugs in the file:/ code. Cut me a break, it's not even four days old! ;-)

But seriously, that's probably a bug in Dillo's command-line parser, where it tries to convert relative filenames into absolute file:/ URLs. Since Dillo is originally a Unix program, it makes a lot of assumptions about file paths that aren't valid on other systems. I will take a look at that code when I get a chance.

In the meantime, absolute pathnames do work, both on the command line and in the location bar.
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
29.11.2011, 01:41
(edited by obeythepenguin, 29.11.2011, 01:56)

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

I've just uploaded a new release, Dillo-Win32 3.0p9. This release fixes the problem with opening local files on the command line, among other changes (the rest are mainly typo fixes). DOS binaries and source are here:

http://dillo-win32.sourceforge.net/DOS/

(There is a proper download page now, so hopefully it should be easier to find the files!)

I have also changed the configuration directory to %DILLO%\CONFIG; apologies in advance for any inconvenience. I hope Georg will consider this an acceptable compromise and stop changing it in his builds.

Additionally, since Georg has not publicly released the source code to his builds as required by the GPL, I have uploaded his changes to my own site. These are exactly as he sent them to me, so please forgive the inconsistent file formats.

http://dillo-win32.sourceforge.net/DOS/obsolete/DilloDos-Beta1.zip
http://dillo-win32.sourceforge.net/DOS/obsolete/DilloDos-Beta2.diff
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
01.12.2011, 03:22

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

> I've just uploaded a new release, Dillo-Win32 3.0p9. This release fixes
> the problem with opening local files on the command line, among other
> changes (the rest are mainly typo fixes). DOS binaries and source are
Thanks for new release. Just writtin from new Dillo here are some comments:
- it can display czech national charset W1250 correctly - great :)
- it can open local files via command line argument or when I type the path in address line (in native format like g:\web\linx.htm)
- file open dialog is messed - I can see only drives A-E even if my lastdrive is set to Z. I have DOS 6.22 and many disk letters A-K and Dillo is in F:\DILLO. If I start typing the path in file open dialog it goes mad when I press "\" or "/" then when I press any key it repeats string "f:/dillo/" and I cannot finish the path, even backspace copy this string again...
- text color of my home is still wrong, I tried to play with allow change BK color and links color but no effect.
- download works for me at ~90kB/s and the speed doesn't visibly change when moving mouse around.
- it still needs to manipulate system TEMP env.variable, I hoped it will be satisfied with %DILLO%
Hope it will not crash on submit :)

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
obeythepenguin

Homepage

United States,
01.12.2011, 05:03

@ RayeR
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

Hi RayeR,

> - file open dialog is messed - I can see only drives A-E even if my
> lastdrive is set to Z. I have DOS 6.22 and many disk letters A-K and Dillo
> is in F:\DILLO. If I start typing the path in file open dialog it goes mad
> when I press "\" or "/" then when I press any key it repeats string
> "f:/dillo/" and I cannot finish the path, even backspace copy this string
> again...
I'm still working out some kinks in the file dialogs. They seem to do the path repeating on every system I've tried (Windows, DOS, Unix); somehow I think their design is too clever by half.

> - text color of my home is still wrong, I tried to play with allow change
> BK color and links color but no effect.
Out of curiosity, do you use color names or hex values on your homepage?

> - download works for me at ~90kB/s and the speed doesn't visibly change
> when moving mouse around.
Have you tested any other browsers' download speeds? I'm curious how Dillo compares.

> - it still needs to manipulate system TEMP env.variable, I hoped it will be
> satisfied with %DILLO%
My build shouldn't modify TEMP, unless I missed something. What does it need to change TEMP for -- is it still the fonts path issue?

> Hope it will not crash on submit :)
Well, it seems to have worked :-)
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
01.12.2011, 15:44

@ obeythepenguin
 

Dillo - now a graphical web browser for DOS

Post reply

Hi,

> I'm still working out some kinks in the file dialogs. They seem to do the
> path repeating on every system I've tried (Windows, DOS, Unix); somehow I
> think their design is too clever by half.
OK

> Out of curiosity, do you use color names or hex values on your homepage?
I always use hexa codes, here's my setting:


<BODY TEXT="#F0F0F0" BGCOLOR="#000000" LINK="#7070FF" VLINK="#008000" ALINK="#FFFF00" STYLE="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">


Dillo/win32 displays text color OK.

> Have you tested any other browsers' download speeds? I'm curious how Dillo
> compares.
Mozilla/Seamonkey downloaded same file at ~900kB/s under WinXP but I should rather compare under DOS with Arachne to see if the slowdown is not caused by realtek driver...

> My build shouldn't modify TEMP, unless I missed something. What does it
> need to change TEMP for -- is it still the fonts path issue?
If I don't set TEMP in Dillo directory it will not load my settings from
F:\DILLO\CONFIG\DILLORC

Here's my Dillo.bat

@echo off
REM set path to Dillo base directory
set DILLO=F:\DILLO
rem set screen resolution to 1600x1200 16 bit
set NANOSCR=1600 1200 565

REM You shouldn't need to edit below this line.
set WATTCP.CFG=%DILLO%\ETC
set ETC=%DILLO%\ETC
set HOME=%DILLO%

rem set dillo as the current directory
set TEMP=%DILLO%
%DILLO%\bin\redir.exe -o %DILLO%\debug.txt -eo -t -x %DILLO%\bin\dillo.exe %1 %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8 %9
REM %DILLO%\bin\vcls.exe
del *.tmp
set TEMP=H:\TEMP


> Well, it seems to have worked :-)
Yes it didn't crashed yet even when I loaded my photogalery with many tens of images :)
Keep up good work

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
05.12.2011, 21:07

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo-Win32 development discontinued

Post reply

Benjamin sent me an email and posted on his web site that he will no longer develop the Dillo-Win32 port on which Dillo for DOS is based on.

As he writes on his web site he is frustrated that the mainline Dillo developers decline to accept contributions from him and do not respond to his technical questions.

Since Dillo is free software I can continue to work on the Dillo for DOS port and Benjamin offered to help me with that. However, the main contributions for the beta2 version came from him and I am afraid development will become much slower now. Anyway, I will do what I can.

Georg
ron

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
05.12.2011, 22:25

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo-Win32 development discontinued

Post reply

> Benjamin sent me an email and posted on his web site that he will no longer
> develop the Dillo-Win32 port on which Dillo for DOS is based on.
>
> As he writes on his web site he is frustrated that the mainline Dillo
> developers decline to accept contributions from him and do not respond to
> his technical questions.
Bummer !! Are they too busy, or just a bit too precious ?

> Since Dillo is free software I can continue to work on the Dillo for DOS
> port and Benjamin offered to help me with that. However, the main
> contributions for the beta2 version came from him and I am afraid
> development will become much slower now. Anyway, I will do what I can.
It IS worthwhile, and I for one will follow developments with interest.

Might be a good idea to start a new thread when there is something new to share - this thread is already over two screens of the Board View.

Ron


> Georg
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
05.12.2011, 22:37

@ ron
 

Dillo-Win32 development discontinued

Post reply

The friction between Benjamin and the mainline developers must have begun before I started the port of Dillo for DOS so I do not know more about it.

I just know that Benjamin always had in mind that the mainline developers would eventually backport his patches into the mainline but they kept declining that. The recent decline made him decide to stop his development.

Yes, I will make a new thread next time.:-)
ron

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
06.12.2011, 00:27

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo-Win32 development discontinued

Post reply

> I just know that Benjamin always had in mind that the mainline developers
> would eventually backport his patches into the mainline but they kept
> declining that. The recent decline made him decide to stop his
> development.
But between the two of you, Ben's work won't be totally lost.
Besides, the Dillo developers may have a change of mind when the DOS port starts to out-perform the original. Yes ?

So what is the next feature for DOS Dillo ? SSL ?

Ron

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glennmcc

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North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
06.12.2011, 00:28

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo-Win32 development discontinued

Post reply

> The friction between Benjamin and the mainline developers must have begun
> before I started the port of Dillo for DOS so I do not know more about it.
>
> I just know that Benjamin always had in mind that the mainline developers
> would eventually backport his patches into the mainline but they kept
> declining that. The recent decline made him decide to stop his
> development.
>
> Yes, I will make a new thread next time.:-)
Georg & Benjamin,

I salute you both for your hard work on Dillo

Thank you !!!
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
06.12.2011, 03:06

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo-Win32 development discontinued

Post reply

> I just know that Benjamin always had in mind that the mainline developers
> would eventually backport his patches into the mainline but they kept
> declining that. The recent decline made him decide to stop his
> development.
Maybe they are fanatic *nix purists who don't want to weed their code by win32 or even worse dos stuff :P

I hope that many of future source files could be used also in DOS version without any change (html rendering core may be platform independent)

BTW I can see that ver 3.0.2 is just out.

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
favero

06.12.2011, 03:59

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo-Win32 development discontinued

Post reply

> Benjamin sent me an email and posted on his web site that he will no longer
> develop the Dillo-Win32 port on which Dillo for DOS is based on.
>
> Since Dillo is free software I can continue to work on the Dillo for DOS
> port and Benjamin offered to help me with that. However, the main
> contributions for the beta2 version came from him and I am afraid
> development will become much slower now. Anyway, I will do what I can.
>
> Georg
DilloDOS is an important advance for DOS users. I have been using it almost exclusively for the last 2 weeks in my main computer (Pentium 133, FreeDOS) and it is working very well.

It would be nice if its development could somehow continue.

Regards,

Marcos
georgpotthast

Homepage

Germany,
06.12.2011, 09:06

@ favero
 

Dillo-Win32 development discontinued

Post reply

Development of Dillo for DOS will continue. It will be a patched version of the mainline code so new developments in that version will also go into Dillo for DOS. I will try to port the new Dillo Version this way to DOS. But if I look at the changelog I doubt that there will be noticable changes for DOS users.

My current plans are to get Dillo for DOS to run without the need for environment variables and make a default downloads directory. Then I will try to make Dillo faster by profiling it. Benjamin had ported the SSL code to DOS but we did not get it to work yet, so I will look into that. Further I would like to get FTP to work and be able to display PDF files based on Rayer's pdfdraw. I got more ideas but I will work on the points mentioned for now.

Georg
RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
06.12.2011, 17:08

@ georgpotthast
 

Dillo-Win32 development discontinued

Post reply

> My current plans are to get Dillo for DOS to run without the need for
> environment variables and make a default downloads directory.
I think that use of only 1 env. var will be accptable instead of multiple ones and need of reconfigure %TEMP%...

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.
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