DOS ain't dead

Laaca

Czech republic,
05.09.2010, 08:16

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2) (Announce)

The new WIP version of open sourced engine for Hexen 2 is released.
Contrary previous announcements still supports also DOS.
The main project page is here: http://uhexen2.sourceforge.net/

the DOS download link for newest build isn't at the main page but is in the
sourceforge download list. Direct link is here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/uhexen2/files/HoT%...1.4.4-pre10/hexen2-1.4.4-pre10-dos.zip/download

NOTE: It is the far most advanced DOS game at all!

---
DOS-u-akbar!

Rugxulo

Usono,
06.09.2010, 00:07

@ Laaca

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Post reply

> The new WIP version of open sourced engine for Hexen 2 is released.
> Contrary previous announcements still supports also DOS.

It mentions DOS in every announcement on their site, so I don't see why you're worried here.

> The main project page is here: http://uhexen2.sourceforge.net/

Yes, I played the (four-character) demo quite a bit a few months ago. (For some reason, id's FTP only holds the "old" crippled demo, which won't work here). Quite fun but confusing (stupid mill key). I think the only huge omission for DOS is no MIDI music (and I doubt that changed in the meantime). But yes, very interesting and fun and well done, just hard to find out where to go, etc.

This timed out for me, but there are probably mirrors if this still won't work later.

http://www.raven-games.com/essential.php#hx2

EDIT: This one seems to work.

http://www.gamershell.com/download_4561.shtml

> the DOS download link for newest build isn't at the main page but is in
> the
> sourceforge download list. Direct link is here:
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/uhexen2/files/HoT%...1.4.4-pre10/hexen2-1.4.4-pre10-dos.zip/download
>
> NOTE: It is the far most advanced DOS game at all!

Really? Not sure if I agree, but it's close enough true I guess. Based upon the Quake 1 engine (though commercially only for Win32 originally, had to be backported to DOS again).

P.S. I think? you can buy the demo data for the full game from GoG.com online. I kept meaning to consider that, but eventually never did it. Maybe soon if I get bored enough. (Been playing more of Duke Nukem 3D lately.)

Zyzzle

06.09.2010, 01:08

@ Rugxulo

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Post reply

> >
> > NOTE: It is the far most advanced DOS game at all!
>
> Really? Not sure if I agree, but it's close enough true I guess. Based upon
> the Quake 1 engine (though commercially only for Win32 originally, had to
> be backported to DOS again).
>

You piqued my interest... I also think Hexen 2 is probably one of the best (ie, most technically advanced, taking advantage of modern hardware, etc). What games do you think are "better" / more advanced for DOS only? One could argue AdvanceMame is better, but then you're talking about an emulator there (albeit a very, very, good one!). An arguement could be made for Descent 2 / Tomb Raider, but the latter doesn't support high resolutions (ie, does not have high-resolution texture-map data available) in DOS, and does not take advantage VBE3.

marcov

06.09.2010, 15:39

@ Zyzzle

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Post reply

> You piqued my interest... I also think Hexen 2 is probably one of the best
> (ie, most technically advanced, taking advantage of modern hardware, etc).
> What games do you think are "better" / more advanced for DOS only? One
> could argue AdvanceMame is better, but then you're talking about an
> emulator there (albeit a very, very, good one!). An arguement could be made
> for Descent 2 / Tomb Raider, but the latter doesn't support high
> resolutions (ie, does not have high-resolution texture-map data available)
> in DOS, and does not take advantage VBE3.

Descent II with a Monster (I) is quite nice. 60fps.

Unfortunately, Monster (I)'s are 640x480 or 800x600 only. (depends on how exactly the Monster is used. Some ways require more memory than others)

Rugxulo

Usono,
06.09.2010, 22:07
(edited by Rugxulo, 06.09.2010, 22:17)

@ Zyzzle

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Post reply

It's a good game, and I think it does have some minor improvements over Quake, even, in the engine, but I don't remember offhand.

Yeah, I played it again yesterday (under DOSBox on Linux ... take that, DOS386 :lol: ). The only things that don't work (I think) are MIDI music and the progress bars on loading (going between mini-levels or whatever, e.g. -> door to Mill). It plays fine but under heavy load the sound (just like Quake) tends to stutter (only under DOSBox). Quake runs fine under DOSEMU x86-64, so this should too.

It's still confusing. I've completed the demo like ten times a few months ago, but even here I could barely remember what to do. (The in-game hints are almost non-existant.) Or at least without a map (fixed in expansion pack??), it's harder to find your way around. Very very easy to get lost. Really that wouldn't be a problem except the dumb archer impaled me (only because I didn't know I was in his sight, plus he was high up and I couldn't easily hit him, might've even ran out of projectile ammo). I should've saved first, but I was really just "testing" to prove it still works. (DOS386: Had to use DOSBox, otherwise it would play no sound on this computer! So nyah.)

Is it the best DOS game "technically"? Could be. There are many other good ones, of course. Tie Fighter, Warcraft 2 (ran in DOS, right??), Descent, Duke Nukem 3D, Chasm: The Rift, Redneck Rampage, etc. I guess anything in the late '90s when DOS was still commercially interesting to companies. (Gog.com probably is a good place to look, but I haven't yet.) We should all get together and write a killer DOS game one of these days (oh well, I can dream, can't I?).

P.S. I love the hand animation for the Necromancer, but yesterday I just played as the Assassin (?, girl) with sword and crossbow. I still laugh at somebody on FB's forum yelling at me for using DOS so heavily: "j00 r nt teh necromanz0r!". :rotfl:

EDIT: Corrected quote with forum reference, for completeness. :-P

DOS386

06.09.2010, 22:44

@ Rugxulo

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Post reply

> Had to use DOSBox, otherwise it would play no sound on this computer

No generic sound solution for DOS, at least soon in MPLAYER ? ;-)

> FB's forum yelling at me for using DOS so heavily

Weren't they yelling at M$ (rather than deprecating them) ???

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

Rugxulo

Usono,
08.09.2010, 06:11

@ Rugxulo

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Post reply

> It's still confusing. I've completed the demo like ten times a few months
> ago, but even here I could barely remember what to do. (The in-game hints
> are almost non-existant.) Or at least without a map (fixed in expansion
> pack??), it's harder to find your way around. Very very easy to get lost.

There's a speedrun of the beginning of the game on YouTube. (Actually, only the first four minutes are equivalent to the demo.) Funny stuff watching it go by so fast. I have no idea what he did to get the Mill Key so soon. Anyways, long story short, it seems harder than it really is. Just to me, it was a bit non-obvious how to get the mill key and what to do with it, mithril potion, etc. Still fun, though, but the demo doesn't give any great ending, so don't get your hopes up! ;-)

RayeR

CZ,
11.09.2010, 02:36

@ Rugxulo

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Post reply

I tried this new engine and it works nice. DOS version renders correctly without artifact and is fast even in higher modes. Looks better than quake so I must agree to most advanced DOS game. But I rather running win32.GL version with sound :)

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Rugxulo

Usono,
11.09.2010, 23:38

@ RayeR

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Post reply

> I tried this new engine and it works nice. DOS version renders correctly
> without artifact and is fast even in higher modes. Looks better than quake
> so I must agree to most advanced DOS game. But I rather running win32.GL
> version with sound :)

I'm just playing it in DOSBox here (needs memsize=32 in dosbox.conf, though). "Sound" does work, but not music (don't miss it). Progress bars don't matter at all, so that's hardly an omission either. Actually, I was using uFMOD to play a song in the background, for laughs. (Yes, DOS386, works with FASM! But not DOS, doh.) So you can always play your own music if that's a dealbreaker.

Actually, I naturally prefer the DOS build (duh), but I did grab sources to build for Linux here, but my SDL Mixer was "too old", heh. Guess I have to grab and build a local copy first. But I was just curious, it's no biggie (though I could whine about how Linux is such a mess re: rebuilding stuff, bah).

RayeR

CZ,
12.09.2010, 13:25

@ Rugxulo

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Post reply

> I'm just playing it in DOSBox here (needs memsize=32 in dosbox.conf,
> though). "Sound" does work, but not music (don't miss it). Progress bars
> don't matter at all, so that's hardly an omission either. Actually, I was
> using uFMOD to play a song in the background, for laughs. (Yes, DOS386,
> works with FASM! But not DOS, doh.) So you can always play your own music
> if that's a dealbreaker.
>
> Actually, I naturally prefer the DOS build (duh), but I did grab sources to
> build for Linux here, but my SDL Mixer was "too old", heh. Guess I have to
> grab and build a local copy first. But I was just curious, it's no biggie
> (though I could whine about how Linux is such a mess re: rebuilding stuff,
> bah).

Why not just download linux binary and update your SDL package? I didn't tried it under my debian linux but hope it would work without problem. Hexen soundtrack, esp in datadisk Portal of Praevus is good. It would be nice if the engine support playing MP3(OGG/whatever) files from disk instead of audiotracks from CD.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Rugxulo

Usono,
12.09.2010, 22:27

@ RayeR

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Post reply

> Why not just download linux binary and update your SDL package?

What Linux binary? They have so many files, it's hard to tell. You mean RPMs or something else? Perhaps 1.4.3 has something that 1.4.4-pre10 doesn't?

Not sure how to update SDL without rebuilding from scratch. Besides, it's not SDL but SDL Mixer (separate?) that needs updating, apparently. It really is just easier to say, "Screw it, just use the DOS binary". And that's beyond the fact that I prefer DOS binaries anyways! ;-) I'm just really lucky I was able to (somehow) build DOSBox here.

> I didn't tried it under my debian linux but hope it would work
> without problem.

Puppy Linux (Lucid 5.0.1) is what I'm using, and it doesn't support RPM or DEB installing (apparently) or else I did it wrong. In fact, it's own package manager works but has a few bugs, so some things don't work. Well, I'll admit, a Debian install (or gNewSense) would had a better bunch of repos. It's really only a USB jumpdrive install anyways, just something easy to setup.

> Hexen soundtrack, esp in datadisk Portal of Praevus is good.

I don't have the full game (yet?), only the demo. Will have to recheck Gog.com one of these days.

> It would be nice if the engine support playing MP3(OGG/whatever)
> files from disk instead of audiotracks from CD.

(obligatory annoying comment, though I'm not implying anyone in particular here): "Patches welcome!" :hungry: :clap: :lol2:

RayeR

CZ,
13.09.2010, 02:04

@ Rugxulo

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Post reply

> > Why not just download linux binary and update your SDL package?
>
> What Linux binary? They have so many files, it's hard to tell. You mean
> RPMs or something else? Perhaps 1.4.3 has something that 1.4.4-pre10
> doesn't?

I just downloaded http://sourceforge.net/project/downloading.php?group_id=124987&filename=hexen2-1.4.3-linux-i586.tgz
unpacked it, copy in the game files, run glhexen2 and play. Very easy "installation" :) I run Debian Linux, sometimes it's better well approved system than various obscure distros ;)

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Rugxulo

Usono,
13.09.2010, 08:41

@ RayeR

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Post reply

> I just downloaded
> http://sourceforge.net/project/downloading.php?group_id=124987&filename=hexen2-1.4.3-linux-i586.tgz

I knew it was one of them, but there were so many! And I definitely didn't want an RPM (though apparently cpio is installed). I wasn't sure if the big ones (18 MB) had the demo data or what. I almost just grabbed random files just to see what was in 'em, but luckily I saw your post pointing to this! ;-)

> unpacked it, copy in the game files, run glhexen2 and play. Very easy
> "installation" :) I run Debian Linux, sometimes it's better well approved
> system than various obscure distros ;)

Puppy is typically "from scratch", and even though this is Lucid Puppy (Ubuntu-based? compatible?), it has many quirks and no (decent) repo.

No, none of that worked for me out-of-the-box. Lemme see if I can remember and accurately portray this dilemma:

I downloaded and tried manually installing Debian's SDL_mixer (used ar [!] instead of dpkg or apt, which are missing just like rpm). That didn't work. Rebuilding SDL_mixer alone didn't work, my SDL is 1.2.9 (too old, needs 1.2.10 or newer, doh). Besides, SDL_mixer needs SDL, probably even the same version (or very close). At first it almost built but borked at no -lesd, so I had to reconfigure with --disable-esd (which thankfully didn't take long). Then I did "make install" and built SDL_mixer, also installed it. But it put it in /usr/local/lib. I guess I should've changed the prefix, but no matter, I (as warned) adjusted my LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to that. glhexen2 didn't work (GLX error?), so I fell back to plain ol' hexen2, which did work but was in a ridiculously small window. I ended up changing default mode to 640x480, but the text was still pretty dang small (too small to comfortably read). It played okay, ran faster (no emulation), spiders seemed extra fast and excitable, and everything (including progress bars) worked ... except MIDI. Yes, I switched from CD to MIDI in config screen, didn't work due to no /etc/timidity ! But I did (for laughs) complete the demo yet again. So all is fine.

So really, I'm not sure all of that is worth it just to run the game. Just use the DOS binary, I say. Granted, if you didn't already have DOSBox, it'd be moot. I tried telling them a while back that I build DOSBox so they could offer it to others, but they didn't seem interested, big surprise. (And DOSEMU here has some weird [kernel? X11?] conflict here where it "beeps" upon every keypress and also sometimes just on timer for some apps, but at least it's available prebuilt. Then again, older Puppy wouldn't even run any DOSEMU !)

RayeR

CZ,
13.09.2010, 15:47

@ Rugxulo

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Post reply

I know, messing with various library versions makes compilation pure evil. But it was your decision to use this distro. For years I tried many Linux distros from small all DYI distros to big windows like mammooths. Then I finally settled on Debian which seems to me like a good compromise. Basic footprint is not big, I start with 200MB netinst miniCD image which setups basic system with console utilities. It has huge package repository so mostly I don't need compile and do only apt-get intall xxx :) Then I usualy customize and compile my own kernel and its done. Debian is not much HW resource consuming, for older systems I reccomend to use kernel 2.4 instead of 2.6. And of course light GUI (I like IceWM). I have it also on 2 old machines, P166 and AMD Geode 300MHz.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Rugxulo

Usono,
10.03.2011, 03:43

@ RayeR

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2) 1.5.0-rc1

Post reply

> Hexen soundtrack, esp in datadisk Portal of Praevus is good. It would be
> nice if the engine support playing MP3(OGG/whatever) files from disk
> instead of audiotracks from CD.

Hammer of Thyrion 1.5.0-rc1 was released on 03 March 2011.

Website: http://uhexen2.sourceforge.net/

Changes: "Major focus is on the background music handling which is now done properly along with ogg, mp3 and wave format music support as well as sound and cdaudio updates."

[only tested by me under DOSEMU, so unlikely to work in the DOS port, just FYI]

Rugxulo Usono, 27.04.2011, 03:17 @ Rugxulo	Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2) 1.5.0-rc2 Post reply
	Hammer of Thyrion 1.5.0-rc2 (bugfix release) was released on 25 April 2011. Website: http://uhexen2.sourceforge.net/ Download / Changes: http://sourceforge.net/projects/uhexen2/files/HoT%20-%20Beta%20versions/HoT-1.5.0-rc2/ Enjoy!

Rugxulo Usono, 13.07.2011, 22:39 @ Rugxulo	Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2) 1.5.0-rc5 Post reply
	Hammer of Thyrion 1.5.0-rc5 (minor bugfixes, last "rc" before final??) was released on 07 July 2011. Website: http://uhexen2.sourceforge.net/ Changes: http://uhexen2.sourceforge.net/ReleaseNotes-150.txt Download: http://sourceforge.net/projects/uhexen2/files/HoT%20-%20Beta%20versions/HoT-1.5.0-rc5/ Enjoy!

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2) (Announce)

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2)

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Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2) 1.5.0-rc1

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2) 1.5.0-rc2

Hammer of Thyrion (Hexen 2) 1.5.0-rc5