DOS ain't dead - EMS memory and XP

paulrichards

19.03.2013, 00:43

EMS memory and XP (Users)

I have followed the earlier threads on this forum regarding EMS memory and XP and the effect that KB2724197 had. So I uninstalled KB2724197 and I was able to continue running MS-DOS programs in the NTVDM command window.

In recent days when I tried to run a MS-DOS program in XP I received this message: "NTVDM.EXE has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience". I did some googling and found that KB2707511 had been found to have the same effect so I uninstalled this and was able to continue running MS-DOS programs for a while but the NTVDM message came back.

I therefore installed DZEMM.SYS and DZEMM.DLL following the instructions provided with the program and modified CONFIG.NT. Unfortunately I am still getting the NTVDM message and am unable to run MS-DOS programs.

Is there any solution to this problem? I am aware of FREEDOS and DOSBOX but would prefer a MS-DOS-capable XP :-)

TIA

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

glennmcc

North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
19.03.2013, 03:13

@ paulrichards

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

> I have followed the earlier threads on this forum regarding EMS memory and
> XP and the effect that KB2724197 had. So I uninstalled KB2724197 and I was
> able to continue running MS-DOS programs in the NTVDM command window.
>
> In recent days when I tried to run a MS-DOS program in XP I received this
> message: "NTVDM.EXE has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are
> sorry for the inconvenience". I did some googling and found that KB2707511
> had been found to have the same effect so I uninstalled this and was able
> to continue running MS-DOS programs for a while but the NTVDM message came
> back.
>
> I therefore installed DZEMM.SYS and DZEMM.DLL following the instructions
> provided with the program and modified CONFIG.NT. Unfortunately I am still
> getting the NTVDM message and am unable to run MS-DOS programs.
>
> Is there any solution to this problem? I am aware of FREEDOS and DOSBOX but
> would prefer a MS-DOS-capable XP :-)
>
> TIA

Wipe that system of _everything_ MS
(especially WinCrap of _all_ versions)

Install OpenDos 7.01 or Dr-Dos 7.02 or 7.03
along with SlackWare Linux v14.0
also install in Linux... dosbox-svn and WINE

All of your problems will now be solved.

---
--
http://glennmcc.org/

Arjay 19.03.2013, 08:36 @ glennmcc	EMS memory and XP Post reply
	> All of your "current" problems will now be solved and replaced by new problems Glen, fixed that typo for you

Arjay

19.03.2013, 08:28

@ paulrichards

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

> I have followed the earlier threads on this forum regarding EMS memory and
> XP and the effect that KB2724197 had. So I uninstalled KB2724197 and I was
> able to continue running MS-DOS programs in the NTVDM command window.
>
> In recent days when I tried to run a MS-DOS program in XP I received this
> message: "NTVDM.EXE has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are
> sorry for the inconvenience". I did some googling and found that KB2707511
> had been found to have the same effect so I uninstalled this and was able
> to continue running MS-DOS programs for a while but the NTVDM message came
> back.
It could be that the update has re-installed itself. I believe you will find the following MSFN.ORG thread helpful " KB2724197 EMS support dropped after installing update in Windows XP SP3" which not only lists the file differences, where they are backed up but also covers patching the registry to stop it re-installing.

> Is there any solution to this problem?
To be honest this is a problem I don't personally care about myself as currently it is not affecting me. However from what I have quickly read myself many have said a good resolution is provided by using the "free for personal use" EMS Magic which is a expanded memory (EMS) emulator for DOS under DOS and Win32.

> would prefer a MS-DOS-capable XP :-)
Totally understand.

paulrichards

19.03.2013, 23:42

@ Arjay

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

Arjay:

> It could be that the update has re-installed itself. I believe you will
> find the following MSFN.ORG thread helpful
> " KB2724197 EMS
> support dropped after installing update in Windows XP SP3" which not
> only lists the file differences, where they are backed up but also covers
> patching the registry to stop it re-installing.

I have double checked: neither KB2724197 nor KB2707511 is listed in Add/Remove Programs Security updates in Control Panel nor are there entries in the Windows $NtUninstall folders. I also don't have the backup folder.

> > Is there any solution to this problem?
> To be honest this is a problem I don't personally care about myself as
> currently it is not affecting me. However from what I have quickly read
> myself many have said a good resolution is provided by using the "free for
> personal use" EMS Magic which is a
> expanded memory (EMS) emulator for DOS under DOS and Win32.

I have EMSMagic. It now no longer works - I get the NTVDM.EXE message.

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

nidud Norway, 19.03.2013, 11:22 @ paulrichards	EMS memory and XP Post reply
	It is difficult to keep control over all the updates, so the simplest is probably to install them to avoid messing things up. I removed the KB2724197 update, but you don?t really have to remove any thing for DZEMM to work. There is a fix for the (KB2707511) "NTVDM.EXE has encountered a problem and needs to close? thing here that may work: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2732488

paulrichards

19.03.2013, 23:48

@ nidud

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

nidud:
> It is difficult to keep control over all the updates, so the simplest is
> probably to install them to avoid messing things up. I removed the
> KB2724197 update, but you don?t really have to remove any thing for DZEMM
> to work.

I have installed DZEMM but it has not solved the problem.
> There is a fix for the (KB2707511) "NTVDM.EXE has encountered a problem and
> needs to close? thing here that may work:
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2732488

I installed the hotfix - no effect, still get the NTVDM.EXE message.

Another thing I noticed - if I open a command window and type 'mem' I get the NTVDM.EXE message. 'dir' works correctly.

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

glennmcc

North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
20.03.2013, 01:01

@ paulrichards

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

> nidud:
> > It is difficult to keep control over all the updates, so the simplest is
> > probably to install them to avoid messing things up. I removed the
> > KB2724197 update, but you don´t really have to remove any thing for
> DZEMM
> > to work.
>
> I have installed DZEMM but it has not solved the problem.
> > There is a fix for the (KB2707511) "NTVDM.EXE has encountered a problem
> and
> > needs to close" thing here that may work:
> >
> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2732488
>
> I installed the hotfix - no effect, still get the NTVDM.EXE message.
>
> Another thing I noticed - if I open a command window and type 'mem' I get
> the NTVDM.EXE message. 'dir' works correctly.

Grasping at straws here, but...

Try running the DOS program(s) in-question in
a command line interface opened via CMD.EXE instead of NTVDM.EXE

---
--
http://glennmcc.org/

paulrichards

20.03.2013, 01:39

@ glennmcc

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

Glenn:

> Try running the DOS program(s) in-question in
> a command line interface opened via CMD.EXE instead of NTVDM.EXE

No go, I'm afraid. I did a restore to a couple of days ago to when I had KB2707511 installed. I then installed hotfix 2785487 (which is supposed to fix UMB problems) but I am still getting the same issues. EMSMagic still gives me the NTVDM.EXE message.

My 'MS-DOS' capability in XP seems completely stuffed.

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

nidud Norway, 20.03.2013, 14:24 @ paulrichards	EMS memory and XP Post reply
	Maybe you should try to restore everything, removing DZEMM and EMS magic, and use MEM to test if this works first. [Run]-> command -> mem [Run]-> cmd -> mem Then, if this work (no EMS memory available), try to install this: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2785487

paulrichards

21.03.2013, 00:46

@ nidud

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

nidud:

> Maybe you should try to restore everything, removing DZEMM and EMS magic,
> and use MEM to test if this works first.
>
> [Run]-> command -> mem

Doesn't even open a command window - gives the NTVDM.EXE message

> [Run]-> cmd -> mem

Opens a command window but typing mem gives the NTVDM.EXE message

>
> Then, if this work (no EMS memory available), try to install this:
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2785487

I have already installed tis, to no effect.

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

nidud

Norway,
20.03.2013, 15:06

@ paulrichards

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

The memory setup in for the XP DOSBox is controlled by a .PIF file.
I use different shortcuts for testing, and here is a shortcut used for Doszip and DZEMM. This have no effect on the global memory setup, so the [Run]->command or cmd will not use DZEMM in this case.

In the Memory tab I set everything to Auto except from the [Use EMS memory] option which I set to None

The Advanced setting (Program tab):
Autoexec filename: [K:\dzemm\AUTOEXEC.NT] Config filename: [K:\dzemm\CONFIG.NT]

The K:\dzemm\AUTOEXEC.NT file:
lh %SystemRoot%\system32\mscdexnt.exe lh %SystemRoot%\system32\redir lh %SystemRoot%\system32\dosx SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 P330 T3

The K:\dzemm\CONFIG.NT file:
dos=high, umb device=D:\windows\system32\himem.sys device=D:\windows\system32\dzemm.sys files=40

You may then have different configurations for different programs without changing the %SystemRoot%\system32\config.nt and autoexec.nt files.

paulrichards

21.03.2013, 00:48

@ nidud

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

> The memory setup in for the XP DOSBox is controlled by a .PIF file.
> I use different shortcuts for testing, and here is a shortcut used for
> Doszip and DZEMM. This have no effect on the global memory setup, so the
> [Run]->command or cmd will not use DZEMM in this case.
>
> In the Memory tab I set everything to Auto except from the
> [Use EMS memory] option which I set to None
>
> The Advanced setting (Program tab):
> > Autoexec filename: [K:\dzemm\AUTOEXEC.NT] > Config filename: [K:\dzemm\CONFIG.NT] >
>
> The K:\dzemm\AUTOEXEC.NT file:
> > lh %SystemRoot%\system32\mscdexnt.exe > lh %SystemRoot%\system32\redir > lh %SystemRoot%\system32\dosx > SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 P330 T3 >
>
> The K:\dzemm\CONFIG.NT file:
> > dos=high, umb > device=D:\windows\system32\himem.sys > device=D:\windows\system32\dzemm.sys > files=40 >
>
> You may then have different configurations for different programs without
> changing the %SystemRoot%\system32\config.nt and autoexec.nt files.

nidud: I'll give this try and report back. Thanks for your help.

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

paulrichards

21.03.2013, 01:09

@ paulrichards

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

> nidud: I'll give this try and report back. Thanks for your help.

OK, I set up a .PIF file as you suggested. This opened a 'MS-DOS' command window. I was able to do a 'mem' with the usual output.

However when I changed directory to load one of my 16-bit programs, I got the NTVDM.EXE message.

So I can now get a command window but not use it! :-(

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

nidud Norway, 21.03.2013, 12:33 @ paulrichards	EMS memory and XP Post reply
	I think there are some security or other problems here unrelated to the memory issue. Maybe you have to execute the program as admin or something? http://support.microsoft.com/kb/324767

paulrichards

21.03.2013, 23:58

@ nidud

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

nidud:

> I think there are some security or other problems here unrelated to the
> memory issue. Maybe you have to execute the program as admin or something?
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/324767

The message I get doesn't seem to be related to any of those - I keep getting: "NTVDM.EXE has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience"

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

Arjay 21.03.2013, 19:44 @ paulrichards	EMS memory and XP Post reply
	> So I can now get a command window but not use it! Ok, I'm technically interested in helping solve this problem but remain very very busy for lots of reasons. Out of interest (and some things I won't go into here) what happens if you launch my shell rjdos.zip then run CMD.EXE from within it, then try other things? Note: That version is utter rubbish... anyway basic usage guide.

paulrichards

21.03.2013, 23:55

@ Arjay

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

Arjay:
>
> Ok, I'm technically interested in helping solve this problem but remain
> very very busy for lots of reasons.
>
> Out of interest (and some things I won't go into here) what happens if you
> launch my shell
> rjdos.zip
> then run CMD.EXE from within it, then try other things? Note: That version
> is utter rubbish... anyway
> basic usage
> guide.

Thanks for the offer of help. I tried rjdos but, presumably because it's a 16-bit program, I just get the NTVDM.EXE message when I try to start it in a command window :-(

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

Japheth

Germany (South),
22.03.2013, 10:15

@ paulrichards

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

> Thanks for the offer of help. I tried rjdos but, presumably because it's a
> 16-bit program, I just get the NTVDM.EXE message when I try to start it in
> a command window :-(

You can try to run command.com under control of a debugger - MS CDB, for example ( contained in the MS debugging tools ).

The debugger "might" get control when the error occurs - and thus you may have a hint what's going wrong.

---
MS-DOS forever!

glennmcc

North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
22.03.2013, 15:49

@ Japheth

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

> > Thanks for the offer of help. I tried rjdos but, presumably because it's a
> > 16-bit program, I just get the NTVDM.EXE message when I try to start it in
> > a command window :-(
>
> You can try to run command.com under control of a debugger - MS CDB, for
> example ( contained in the MS debugging tools ).
>
> The debugger "might" get control when the error occurs - and thus you may
> have a hint what's going wrong.

Just grasping at straws again, but....

dosbox might be the way to go instead.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/dosbox/files/dosbox/0.74/DOSBox0.74-win32-installer.exe/download

---
--
http://glennmcc.org/

paulrichards

22.03.2013, 22:32

@ glennmcc

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

Glenn:

>
> Just grasping at straws again, but....
>
> dosbox might be the way to go instead.
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/dosbox/files/dosbox/0.74/DOSBox0.74-win32-installer.exe/download

I am aware of DOSBOX and, as I said in my original email, I want to avoid using it, if possible.

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

paulrichards

22.03.2013, 22:34

@ Japheth

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

Japheth:

> You can try to run command.com under control of a debugger - MS CDB, for
> example ( contained in the MS debugging tools ).
>
> The debugger "might" get control when the error occurs - and thus you may
> have a hint what's going wrong.

I'm afraid we're getting way out of my area of competence when you mention a debugger :-)

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

Arjay 22.03.2013, 21:51 @ paulrichards	EMS memory and XP Post reply
	> Thanks for the offer of help. I tried rjdos but, presumably because it's a > 16-bit program, I just get the NTVDM.EXE message when I try to start it in > a command window No worries. Based on this I take it you have a 64-bit machine?

paulrichards

22.03.2013, 22:36

@ Arjay

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

Arjay:

> I tried rjdos but, presumably because it's a
> 16-bit program, I just get the NTVDM.EXE message when I try to start it
>in a command window :-(

> No worries. Based on this I take it you have a 64-bit machine?

No, I'm running 32-bit XP.

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

paulrichards

22.03.2013, 22:39

@ paulrichards

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

Thanks for all the suggestions. I don't have an acceptable solution yet but as a last shot I'm going to try an sfc /scannow when I get home tomorrow. Maybe I have some corrupted files - but I suspect Microsoft changes in their 'security' updates as being the culprit.

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

Arjay

24.03.2013, 10:19

@ paulrichards

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

> as a last shot I'm going to try an sfc /scannow when I get home tomorrow.
What was the results of this?

Note: You need to be admin user to run SFC, so you may need to do this:

C:\Users\basicuser>runas /user:userwithadmin "sfc /scannow"

You seem to have some strange unexpected machine senario which doing everthing else that others have done still isn't fixing it for you, e.g. it could be combination of machine make, anti-virus software etc.

paulrichards

24.03.2013, 12:55

@ Arjay

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

Arjay:

> > as a last shot I'm going to try an sfc /scannow when I get home
> tomorrow.
> What was the results of this?
>
> Note: You need to be admin user to run SFC, so you may need to do this:
>
> C:\Users\basicuser>runas /user:userwithadmin "sfc> /scannow"

When I do this in a command prompt I am asked for a password - I have never used a password so just hitting <enter> fails the program: "1327: Logon failure user account restriction. Possible reasons are blank passwords not allowed, logon hour restrictions, or a policy restriction has been enforced".

I tried "Run" from the XP Start button. As my normal logon has Administrator rights this starts to run OK. I am asked for the Windows XP Service Pack 3 CD several times - I have the CD in the drive but XP says it can't read it so I presume that a number of files were missing or wrong version but they couldn't be updated.

So I'm no further forward :-(

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

paulrichards

25.03.2013, 05:06

@ paulrichards

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

Arjay:

> So I'm no further forward :-(

Well, I seemed to have stumbled on a solution :-D

I was looking in Control Panel and I spotted an icon I didn't recognise so I clicked on it. It was Installshield Update Manager, as it happened. Immediately it came up with a Data Execution Prevention message saying that this program was prevented from running. So I cancelled it - it then came up with the famous NTVDM.EXE message. So I looked at my DEP options. Instead of the default (Turn on DEP for essential Windows programs and services only) I had, deliberately and many months ago, listed a series of exceptions and requested DEP to work for all Windows programs and services except those I had listed. Installshield wasn't one of them.

I couldn't see how this related to the NTVDM but, since I'd received the message, I restored the defaults and rebooted - who knows, anything is possible.

Lo and behold mem/c works and I can launch 16-bit programs :confused:

I don't know why but - so far - everything seems to now work as expected.

This has been a bit of a saga - thanks to everyone who contributed. I still don't know why I got the problems that I did - as I say, I had changed DEP options many months ago so why the NTVDM message started appearing a week ago stumps me completely.

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

Arjay

25.03.2013, 09:10

@ paulrichards

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

> > So I'm no further forward :-(
>
> Well, I seemed to have stumbled on a solution :-D
Good sounds like a workable workaround. According to this thread KB2707511 causes NTVDM crash there is hotfix #2732488 as follows:

"NTVDM.EXE has encountered a problem and needs to close" error message when you use 16-bit applications in Windows XP

I would say you are best off installing that instead and turning DEP back on.

> I couldn't see how this related to the NTVDM but, since I'd received the
> message, I restored the defaults and rebooted - who knows, anything is
> possible.
The why is related to "internal" software instructions in NTVDM which is what the security patches are patching or rather now preventing from executing. In short there are (were) various 16bit to 32bit API calls which were used by low level device drivers and also some DOS software during the transition away from DOS to Windows.

> This has been a bit of a saga - thanks to everyone who contributed. I still
> don't know why I got the problems that I did - as I say, I had changed DEP
> options many months ago so why the NTVDM message started appearing a week
> ago stumps me completely.
Further patching... I suspect they added in the DEP entry which makes sense.

paulrichards

25.03.2013, 09:47

@ Arjay

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

Arjay:

>there is hotfix #2732488 as follows:
>
> "NTVDM.EXE has encountered a
> problem and needs to close" error message when you use 16-bit applications
> in Windows XP
>
> I would say you are best off installing that instead and turning DEP back
> on.

I have DEP turned on - it's just that I have no exceptions now.

> > I couldn't see how this related to the NTVDM but, since I'd received the
> > message, I restored the defaults and rebooted - who knows, anything is
> > possible.
> The why is related to "internal" software instructions in NTVDM which is
> what the security patches are patching or rather now preventing from
> executing. In short there are (were) various 16bit to 32bit API calls
> which were used by low level device drivers and also some DOS software
> during the transition away from DOS to Windows.

It's all a bit too advanced for me :-) I'm just a simple user who wants to run some 16-bit programs in XP!

Anyway, many thanks for your help.

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

Arjay

23.03.2013, 09:32

@ paulrichards

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

> when I try to start it in a command window :-(
Ah, just re-read this. Ok, what I was suggesting was to run RJDOS first (you should just be able to open the ZIP then just click onto the EXE) then once loaded running CMD.EXE from then trying other programs from within that session.

> No, I'm running 32-bit XP
Ok. And Win32 command-line programs are working ok? e.g. what happens if you try running "ping -t localhost" direct from the run prompt ([Windows_key] + [R]) - works ok? I'm expecting you to say yes.

IS the Virtual DOS Machine still enabled? Is the value of HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\AppCompat\VDMDisallowed non-zero? If so try setting as below:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\AppCompat\VDMDisallowed
"=dword:00000000

What is the filesize, date/time stamp of NTVDM.EXE?
Is wowexec.exe present in C:\Windows or C:\Windows\System32 ?
Does C:\Windows\System32\WINOLDAP.MOD exist?

Does ProcessExplorer show anything unusual?

paulrichards

23.03.2013, 10:11

@ Arjay

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

Arjay:

> Ah, just re-read this. Ok, what I was suggesting was to run RJDOS first
> (you should just be able to open the ZIP then just click onto the EXE) then
> once loaded running CMD.EXE from then trying other programs from within
> that session.

Did that - no command window opened, got the NTVDM.EXE message.

> > No, I'm running 32-bit XP
> Ok. And Win32 command-line programs are working ok? e.g. what happens if
> you try running "ping -t localhost" direct from the run prompt
> ([Windows_key] + [R]) - works ok? I'm expecting you to say yes.

Works OK. Getting reply.
>
> IS the Virtual DOS Machine still enabled? Is the value of
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\AppCompat\VDMDisallowed non-zero?

No there is no entry for this Registry entry.

If so try setting as below:
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\AppCompat\VDMDisallowed "=dword:00000000

Not sure how to do this :-(
>
> What is the filesize, date/time stamp of NTVDM.EXE?

16/03/2006, 15:00, 411 kb.

> Is
> wowexec.exe
> present in C:\Windows or C:\Windows\System32 ?

Yes, in \system32

> Does C:\Windows\System32\WINOLDAP.MOD exist?

Yes

> Does
> ProcessExplorer> show anything unusual?

Not sure how to use this in this context.

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

Arjay

23.03.2013, 12:02

@ paulrichards

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

> > you try running "ping -t localhost" direct from the run prompt
> > ([Windows_key] + [R]) - works ok? I'm expecting you to say yes.
> Works OK. Getting reply.
Ok good I thought that it would work fine.

> No there is no entry for this Registry entry.
Good as that would cause problems if it was enabled.

> Not sure how to do this :-(
Let's not worry about that for now.

> 16/03/2006, 15:00, 411 kb.
Ok, I'll come back re this.

> ProcessExplorer>
> show anything unusual?
> Not sure how to use this in this context.
Ok, we may come back to this. Instead for now can I suggest that you download the excellent Dependancy Walker and browse to and open NTVDM.EXE in it (should be fairly easy to do) and just see if it reports any missing DLL files? Note: missing files are not always a bad thing but let's use DW to quickly see what is missing.

paulrichards

24.03.2013, 03:51

@ Arjay

EMS memory and XP

Post reply

Arjay:

>Instead for now can I suggest that you
> download the excellent Dependancy
> Walker and browse to and open NTVDM.EXE in it (should be fairly easy
> to do) and just see if it reports any missing DLL files? Note: missing
> files are not always a bad thing but let's use DW to quickly see what is
> missing.

OK, opening NTVDM.EXE in Dependency Walker shows, apparently, 2 files missing. I have the message "Error opening file. The system cannot find the file specified" for each of IESHIMS.DLL and WER.DLL. Each of these files has an hourglass icon and ? against them. Below them is file MPR.DLL with an hourglass icon and a shaded red square.

There are also 2 warning messages:

"Warning: At least one delay-load dependency module was not found."
"Warning: At least one module has an unresolved import due to a missing export function in a delay-load dependent module."

Does this help?

---
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

Arjay

24.03.2013, 10:08

@ paulrichards

EMS memory and XP - DependancyWalker+DrWatson

Post reply

> OK, opening NTVDM.EXE in Dependency Walker shows, apparently, 2 files
> missing. I have the message "Error opening file.
> system cannot find the file specified" for each of IESHIMS.DLL and WER.DLL.
Ok, both should be "optional" Internet Explorer related files. Yes, this is DOS related but there are IE links all over the place. You should be able to live happily without both of them, e.g. IESHIMS.DLL was missing on a machine I quickly tested this on myself before then suggesting you gave it a try to see if it threw up anything. DependancyWalker is a very well written easy to use tool to fire up in situations when all else has failed.

> Below them is file MPR.DLL with an hourglass icon and a shaded red square.
The MPR.DLL warning shouldn't be a problem as per Dependency Walker FAQ.

> Does this help?
Yes, in eliminating likely causes. I am pretty sure that based on everything you've written and the tests we've done that the problem you have is now entirely now with 16-bit app console handling with the likes of CMD.EXE breaking at the point that they are handing over 16-bit app handling to NTVDM and it's components. What DependancyWalker has just told us is the files that NTVDM's requires are pretty much present. That doesn't mean the right versions are present or that they've not been damaged in some way. We can forget IESHIMS.DLL as it's optional. Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure WER.DLL is as well but it might not be a bad thing to replace that.

FYI, due to the way DLL error handling works and the fact that often programmers are lazy.... It is possible for an application to report DLL 1 as missing when DLL 1 is present and DLL 1 is reporting that a DLL it requires ( DLL 2 ) as missing. So you end up with the weird situation where people are going but DLL 1 is present... when what is missing is DLL 2.
It is possible to obviously resolve those kind of complex problems by hand (I have) but Dependancy Walker does a good job of cutting out a lot of the pain.

So believe it or not this could even be a weird situation that say because WPR.DLL is missing that this is then reported back to another DLL used by NTVDM which in turn is reported back to the Win32 side which for whatever reasons doesn't now know how to handle that situation due to the update....
...You can have hours of fun with missing DLL's - many are not required tho!

Still I doubt the weird situation described is the cause, but you never know. DOSBox (as someone elese has suggested) should give you an immediate workaround fix since it has it's own 16-bit virtual machine independant of NTVDM's. What Japheth has suggested regarding running a debugger might be worthwhile since the NTVDM does feedback messages to a kernel level debugger. Before jumping in with a heavy weight one, have you tried running Dr Watson then seeing what happens?

In the meantime I've got other things to do but will give this some more thought and ways that we can quickly narrow this down/hopefully get it fixed.