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Wengier

E-mail

01.10.2020, 20:15
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released (Announce)

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 is now released. As a cross-platform DOS emulator, it provides official DOS version (in addition to other platforms), which is self-contained so that you can simply unzip the file and type DOSBOX-X to run in DOS.

You can directly download the latest 0.83.6 packages from the project homepage:

https://dosbox-x.com/

There are quite a few new features and improvements in the latest version. The release notes for version 0.83.6 can be found here:

http://dosbox-x.com/release-0.83.6.html

Direct download for the DOS version:

dosbox-x-mingw-hx-dos-20201001084529.zip

KormaX

27.10.2020, 00:27

@ Wengier
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

Thank you!
This version is very improved and useful. I also like the new "design" that it is self-contained.

Is it possible to ever have a "graphics passthrough" option in the HX.DOS builds? It would be useful to avoid rendering graphics by simply forwarding them to the real hardware, which is not possible on modern systems, but definitely is under DOS. Although, I can not estimate how much effort would it be, so it's just a question/idea.

---
DOS isn't about why. It's about why not.

Wengier

E-mail

29.10.2020, 22:01

@ KormaX
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

> Thank you!
> This version is very improved and useful. I also like the new "design" that
> it is self-contained.
>
> Is it possible to ever have a "graphics passthrough" option in the HX.DOS
> builds? It would be useful to avoid rendering graphics by simply forwarding
> them to the real hardware, which is not possible on modern systems, but
> definitely is under DOS. Although, I can not estimate how much effort would
> it be, so it's just a question/idea.

The "graphical passthrough" option can be useful of course, but since the DOS package relies on HX DOS Extender, I wonder if HX DOS Extender already provides this as an option so that the DOS version of DOSBox-X can make use of it?

Zyzzle

27.10.2020, 01:33

@ Wengier
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

> DOSBox-X 0.83.6 is now released. As a cross-platform DOS emulator, it
> provides official DOS version (in addition to other platforms), which is
> self-contained so that you can simply unzip the file and type DOSBOX-X to
> run in DOS.
>
> You can directly download the latest 0.83.6 packages from the project
> homepage:
>
> https://dosbox-x.com/
>
> There are quite a few new features and improvements in the latest version.
> The release notes for version 0.83.6 can be found here:
>
> http://dosbox-x.com/release-0.83.6.html
>
> Direct download for the DOS version:
>
> dosbox-x-mingw-hx-dos-20201001084529.zip

0.83.5 worked perfectly well for me under HX 2.18, but 0.83.6 doesn't start, just quits immediately to the DOS prompt, without even displaying the title screen. It seems somehow to be an incompatibility. Nothing changed in my DOSBOX.conf files. Running in pure DOS of course.

I also ask question as Kormax does. How difficult would it be to use a pass-through driver to greatly speed up video functions? I think MPLAYER does, or did something like this through its "VIDIX" drivers and / or "3dfx" passthrough video drivers... Something like this is probably possible with DOS BOX-X, but I wouldn't know the extent of work involved.

RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
27.10.2020, 06:49

@ Zyzzle
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

> 0.83.5 worked perfectly well for me under HX 2.18, but 0.83.6 doesn't
> start, just quits immediately to the DOS prompt, without even displaying
> the title screen. It seems somehow to be an incompatibility. Nothing
> changed in my DOSBOX.conf files. Running in pure DOS of course.

I have the same problem but if I set path to HXRT dir before running dosbox it works fine then...

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Wengier

E-mail

29.10.2020, 21:58
(edited by Wengier, 29.10.2020, 22:26)

@ RayeR
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

> > 0.83.5 worked perfectly well for me under HX 2.18, but 0.83.6 doesn't
> > start, just quits immediately to the DOS prompt, without even displaying
> > the title screen. It seems somehow to be an incompatibility. Nothing
> > changed in my DOSBOX.conf files. Running in pure DOS of course.
>
> I have the same problem but if I set path to HXRT dir before running dosbox
> it works fine then...

RayeR: The file SHELL32.DLL was (unfortunately) missing from the initial ZIP package for the DOSBox-X 0.83.6 DOS version, which likely made it unable to start properly without external HXRT files. But this was later discovered and the SHELL32.DLL file was added to the ZIP package (whose file name remains unchanged). Have you tried the redownload and run the DOS package?

KormaX

27.10.2020, 09:53

@ Zyzzle
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

RayeR must be right. I always have my HX package in the path (somewhere, and sometimes in multiple places including dirs on RAM-disk and etc. according to how my overcomplicated setup system distributes its files for purposes) but it is a strange mixture of 2.18, 2.17 and 2.17+. On the other hand, since Wengier made it self contained, the executable doesn't work if it's renamed as it has a DOS-PE stub looking for DOSBOX-X.EXE specifically. I have more versions of DOSBox installed on my DOS, all of them controlled by a PLAY.BAT I made for this purpose, but I had to extend the version-selector script as new files can not be renamed, furthermore, the newer versions may contain useful things in ther dirs. So the newer versions require the user to execute the more precisely.

---
DOS isn't about why. It's about why not.

Wengier

E-mail

29.10.2020, 22:16

@ KormaX
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

> RayeR must be right. I always have my HX package in the path (somewhere,
> and sometimes in multiple places including dirs on RAM-disk and etc.
> according to how my overcomplicated setup system distributes its files for
> purposes) but it is a strange mixture of 2.18, 2.17 and 2.17+. On the other
> hand, since Wengier made it self contained, the executable doesn't work if
> it's renamed as it has a DOS-PE stub looking for DOSBOX-X.EXE specifically.
> I have more versions of DOSBox installed on my DOS, all of them controlled
> by a PLAY.BAT I made for this purpose, but I had to extend the
> version-selector script as new files can not be renamed, furthermore, the
> newer versions may contain useful things in ther dirs. So the newer
> versions require the user to execute the more precisely.

I think you can still rename DOSBOX-X.EXE to something else (e.g. DB-X.EXE) and run it (e.g. DB-X) in DOS. I just tried it myself and it seemed to work. But unfortunately the file SHELL32.DLL was missing from the initial ZIP package for the DOSBox-X 0.83.6 DOS version. It was later discovered and fixed though.

KormaX

27.10.2020, 11:44

@ Zyzzle
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

I would also like to mention that by passthrough I simply meant that DOSBox-X would recognize any attempt to reach a video device but instead of emulating the hardware, it is just passed to the real memory or I/O address and vice versa. Interrupts may make it more difficult, but the point is, this way DOSBox-X doesn't have to provide any drivers, like, say, VIDIX. It's up to the client program whether it's able to handle the videocard or not. So HW acceleration would only be possible with a real Voodoo card or smthg, but sVGA should be enough on a modern hardware, as it is fast enough to make HW acceleration redundant. This method would make DOSBox-X's SDL menĂ¼ unavailable while in this mode, yet it would be extremely useful.

---
DOS isn't about why. It's about why not.

Wengier

E-mail

29.10.2020, 22:21

@ KormaX
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

> I would also like to mention that by passthrough I simply meant that
> DOSBox-X would recognize any attempt to reach a video device but instead of
> emulating the hardware, it is just passed to the real memory or I/O address
> and vice versa. Interrupts may make it more difficult, but the point is,
> this way DOSBox-X doesn't have to provide any drivers, like, say, VIDIX.
> It's up to the client program whether it's able to handle the videocard or
> not. So HW acceleration would only be possible with a real Voodoo card or
> smthg, but sVGA should be enough on a modern hardware, as it is fast enough
> to make HW acceleration redundant. This method would make DOSBox-X's SDL
> menĂ¼ unavailable while in this mode, yet it would be extremely useful.

I hope HX DOS Extender can provide such options so that DOSBox-X can make use of. On the other hand, I think accessing the real hardware all by DOSBox-X itself may require significant amount of work.

Wengier

E-mail

29.10.2020, 22:04
(edited by Wengier, 29.10.2020, 22:24)

@ Zyzzle
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

> 0.83.5 worked perfectly well for me under HX 2.18, but 0.83.6 doesn't
> start, just quits immediately to the DOS prompt, without even displaying
> the title screen. It seems somehow to be an incompatibility. Nothing
> changed in my DOSBOX.conf files. Running in pure DOS of course.
>
> I also ask question as Kormax does. How difficult would it be to use a
> pass-through driver to greatly speed up video functions? I think MPLAYER
> does, or did something like this through its "VIDIX" drivers and / or
> "3dfx" passthrough video drivers... Something like this is probably
> possible with DOS BOX-X, but I wouldn't know the extent of work involved.

Zyzzle: The file SHELL32.DLL was (unfortunately) missing from the initial DOSBox-X 0.83.6 DOS package, but it was later discovered and the SHELL32.DLL file was added to the ZIP package (whose file name remains unchanged). Have you tried the redownload and run the DOS package?

For the "graphical passthough" option, does HX-DOS Extender (which the DOSBox-X DOS version relies on) already provides such a feature so that DOSBox-X can make sure of?

Japheth

Homepage

Germany (South),
31.10.2020, 19:41

@ Wengier
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

> For the "graphical passthough" option, does HX-DOS Extender (which the
> DOSBox-X DOS version relies on) already provides such a feature so that
> DOSBox-X can make sure of?

In case you asked me: I don't know, because I don't know what you mean by "graphical passthough" (guessing you meant "passthrough"). If it's access to memory regions or I/O ports, then yes, HX (the DPMI host) will surely "allow" this.

---
MS-DOS forever!

KormaX

31.10.2020, 23:13

@ Japheth
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

I suppose a DOS PE is able to access DPMI services directly, bypassing DPMILD32.EXE and the WinAPI emulation layer. Or am I wrong?

---
DOS isn't about why. It's about why not.

Japheth

Homepage

Germany (South),
01.11.2020, 08:11

@ KormaX
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

> I suppose a DOS PE is able to access DPMI services directly, bypassing
> DPMILD32.EXE and the WinAPI emulation layer. Or am I wrong?

No.

---
MS-DOS forever!

Laaca

Homepage

Czech republic,
01.11.2020, 12:53

@ KormaX
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

> I suppose a DOS PE is able to access DPMI services directly, bypassing
> DPMILD32.EXE and the WinAPI emulation layer. Or am I wrong?

Well, I am not familiar with DoxBox-X source but... ...it is a originaly non-DOS project so it uses some high-level API. The HX-DOS version is based on the Win32 version so it internaly uses WinAPI.
I doubt that the HX-DOS fork differs much. So yes, it theoreticaly could call the BIOS/DPMI/whatever directly but I very doubt that it really does.

---
DOS-u-akbar!

KormaX

01.11.2020, 17:11

@ Laaca
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

I didn't say it does, I just said it can. HX provides a Win32 compatible API but does not restrict you into a sandbox of WinAPI emulation. If you add some in-line assembler in order to map host memory address in, it should compile with MingW. It won't run on Windows anymore, as it will be 100% incompatible because of that routine, but it WILL work on DOS. Same for calling an interrupt: Wengier can define a routine that calls 'INT 31H 0300H' that WILL work under DOS and can coexist with the WinAPI dependent code. At least, in my understanding.

---
DOS isn't about why. It's about why not.

RayeR

Homepage

CZ,
01.11.2020, 23:03

@ KormaX
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

Yes, I think it could work this way.
And do we know what is actually the current graphics data path from hosted DOS program to videomemory? How many times it's copied between dosbox to HX to VRAM, or is it just mapped? HX GDI/DX emulation also could do just mapping if source and destionation resolution and pixel format would match...

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Wengier

E-mail

04.11.2020, 03:30

@ KormaX
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

> I didn't say it does, I just said it can. HX provides a Win32 compatible
> API but does not restrict you into a sandbox of WinAPI emulation. If you
> add some in-line assembler in order to map host memory address in, it
> should compile with MingW. It won't run on Windows anymore, as it will be
> 100% incompatible because of that routine, but it WILL work on DOS. Same
> for calling an interrupt: Wengier can define a routine that calls 'INT 31H
> 0300H' that WILL work under DOS and can coexist with the WinAPI dependent
> code. At least, in my understanding.

The problem with this approach is apparently that it requires low-level programming exclusively for the DOS platform. But I am certainly not a master of the assembly language. On the other hand, if HX DOS Extender can provide an extension library designed for this purpose then it will certainly be very helpful - Win32 apps can then become DOS aware and access resources in DOS with its built-in libraries.

By the way, DOSBox-X 0.83.7 is already released. Please check it out:

http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=17107

KormaX

21.11.2020, 23:22

@ Wengier
 

DOSBox-X 0.83.6 released

Thank you, I updated DOSBOx-X and v 0.83.7 is really useful. I also read this answer of you, but I had no time to answer it. I don't know what you mean by extension library, I suppose, it'd be a .dll you could distribute with DOSBox-X HX builds, but I don't know how much you want to import from the library and how much you are intended to perform in DOSBox-X itself. As a last resort, I could possibly write a .dll for you that deals with HDPMI32 and kindly asks for memory areas, invokes interrupts or installs handlers, IF no better programmer is intended to do it, if it is enough at all (meaning that DOSBox-X knows when to access real HW or real BIOS, and the library's only purpose is to contain the low level code to actually do that) and if I have the time (which I currently don't, but I might in the future). Yet, I don't know much about graphics adapters (which problem can be solved by reading docs, the goal is not a driver, but a transparent interface) and I can't do any high level mumbojumbo, as I am not a developer (which problem won't be solved in the foreseeable future). So depending on how you imagine this possible future feature of DOSBox-X, I may or may not be able to help you, but if I can, I will try. In the next 2-4 months I'll be in user-only mode, but if you'll have any idea of how much you expect from a .dll like that and noone else happens to be intended to write one (especially Japheth, who'd be the best person to do that), I can try to make a simple .dll for the purpose. 'Cause it was my idea, LOL.

---
DOS isn't about why. It's about why not.

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