DOS ain't dead - Digital Research's GEM (Graphical Environment Manager)

Arjay

19.06.2010, 20:21
(edited by Arjay, 19.06.2010, 20:51)

Digital Research's GEM (Graphical Environment Manager) (Users)

Whilst attempting to locate the GEM .SYS driver file format. The Wikipedia article on GEM reminded me that GEM was released as GPL in 1999, leading to OpenGEM and FreeGEM. Since I noted no past references to GEM for DOS or links that I can see on the BTTR forum/site I thought I would include a few here for anyone interested. GEM was fairly common here in the UK not just because of the Atari ST but because of the Amstrad 1512+1640.

Apart from having to use a few ST's during the mid-90's the last time I used the DOS version was about 1991 I think. There are several DOS version one of which can be located via a this "fixed" Reocities archive link (note other links to the following Geocities site including Wikipedia's are now broken due to the closure of Geocities):
http://www.reocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/6148/gem.html

Apart from Wikipedia, these sites are good starting places:
http://www.deltasoft.com/
http://www.seasip.info/Gem/
http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/archive/unofficial/gemworld.html

Sourceforge link for OpenGEM:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/opengem/

This following GEM link is probably more interesting to many as it includes something called PS (an experiment with "Caldera OpenDOS" multitasking):
http://www.cowlark.com/obsolete-dos-software/

P.S For those of you interested (e.g. extending HX-Extender ;). Some GEM DOS system file format information (including GEM DOS EXE information) can be located here: http://www.seasip.info/Gem/filefmt.html If anyone does note or knows of any information on the GEM SYS (or DOS SYS) formats then please let me know as so far I'm hitting brick walls on finding good DOS SYS information online - unsurprisingly. GEM is being a real pain and short of going through loads of GEM source code.... e.g. Surprisingly even http://www.wotsit.org/ has no information on any "DOS" SYS file formats, the only SYS related file that is returned OBJ-LIB.TXT which doesn't even have the DOS SYS format. Likewise I couldn't spot SYS info on Ralph Brown's Interrupt list. Note: I have some references in book form but am seeking as many as possible. At this rate I may even dig out my IBM RED/Gray manuals ;)

[EDIT] Note: Analyzing some .SYS files has revealed that many are EXE files (see notes above). However the .SYS file format I am particularly interested in is the file format used by SYS files like GEMDOSFI.SYS as mentioned here which begin 60h, 1Ah, 00h, 00h - in otherwords NOT a DOS SYS and NOT a DOS EXE!

Rugxulo

Usono,
19.06.2010, 21:54

@ Arjay

Digital Research's GEM (Graphical Environment Manager)

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> Whilst attempting to locate the GEM .SYS driver file format. The
> Wikipedia
> article on GEM reminded me that GEM was released as GPL in 1999,
> leading to OpenGEM and
> FreeGEM. Since I noted
> no past references to GEM for DOS or links that I can see on the BTTR
> forum/site I thought I would include a few here for anyone interested.

I think FreeGEM (for DOS) is truly, permanently dead. The only one still alive (or was) is OpenGem. Last I checked, Shane's site was down. Before that, I think he mentioned on the mailing list (two years ago??) that v6 was ready to go but didn't have time to release it. So I honestly have no idea.

> (note other links to the following Geocities site including Wikipedia's
> are now broken due to the closure of Geocities):

Don't you just love broken links? (Not!) Man, I've been finding TONS lately, and not only to Geocities. Wayback is nice but no perfect alternative. Some things really do get lost to the ages! Shame that people can't mirror more stuff or backup or maintain or whatever.

> Sourceforge link for OpenGEM:
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/opengem/

Not sure how up-to-date that latest file is, but dang, 47 MB !!!!

> This following GEM link is probably more interesting to many as it includes
> something called PS (an experiment with "Caldera OpenDOS" multitasking):
> http://www.cowlark.com/obsolete-dos-software/

Yup, it works great in DR-DOS 7.03 when multitasking is enabled (although I rarely enable it, honestly). I even rebuilt ps.com with TC++ 1.01 and JWasm a while back, and it still seemed to work. (Yes, it's a C++ wrapper around asm calls, ugh. He's basically using the TaskMax / DR-DOS 6 API since "it's easier" [have to agree, 7.x's APIs are very very confusing, I never did even begin to grok those!]) BTW, check out more from that Cowlark guy, he's pretty dang smart and has lots of cool stuff / links. (Just read his November review of Go language yesterday, quite interesting.)

Arjay

20.06.2010, 00:02

@ Rugxulo

Digital Research's GEM (Graphical Environment Manager)

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> I think FreeGEM (for DOS) is truly, permanently dead. The only one still
> alive (or was) is OpenGem. Last I checked, Shane's site was down. Before
> that, I think he mentioned on the mailing list (two years ago??) that v6
> was ready to go but didn't have time to release it. So I honestly have no
> idea.
As you probably know Shane hasn't updated his blog since sometime in 2008. I did however note that he is regularly updating twitter where you can follow/reach him under @opendawn

> Don't you just love broken links? (Not!)
No!!!!

> Man, I've been finding TONS lately,
What I find even more annoyingly is the continued decrease in low level technical information which at the same time is being drowned by an increase in white noise.

> Some things really do get lost to the ages!
FYI, I do remember we have/were launching some UK web archiving projects. Can't remember what they are called off the top of my head but useful to know.

> Shame that people can't mirror more stuff or backup or maintain or whatever.
Well if you want to pay for a few T1 equiv pipes for me I'll be happy to ;)

> Not sure how up-to-date that latest file is, but dang, 47 MB !!!!
Sounds like you need a few yourself first though ;)

> > something called PS (an experiment with "Caldera OpenDOS" multitasking):
> Yup, it works great in DR-DOS 7.03 when multitasking is enabled
Useful to know. DESQview worked well.

> a while back, and it still seemed to work. (Yes, it's a C++ wrapper around
> asm calls, ugh.
heh. don't ask but I did wrap some asm into C into Pascal the other night....

> BTW, check out more from that Cowlark guy, he's pretty dang smart
> and has lots of cool stuff / links.
> November review of Go language yesterday, quite interesting.)
Ok will do. From that description it sounds like he is another Fabrice Bellard ! :)

Berlin, Germany,
20.06.2010, 13:45

@ Arjay

Digital Research's GEM (Graphical Environment Manager)

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> [EDIT] Note: Analyzing some .SYS files has revealed that many are EXE files
> (see notes above). However the .SYS file format I am particularly
> interested in is the file format used by SYS files like
> GEMDOSFI.SYS
> as mentioned here which begin 60h, 1Ah, 00h, 00h - in otherwords NOT
> a DOS SYS and NOT a DOS EXE!

GEMDOSFI.SYS is named SYS at random, just because it contains the operating SYStem. So this has really nothing to do with DOS on x86.

---
Forum admin

Arjay

20.06.2010, 14:04

@ rr

Digital Research's GEM (Graphical Environment Manager)

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> GEMDOSFI.SYS is named SYS at random,
Thanks I had realized this but just wanted to just support this format which is used by a few files in addition to this one. I just wanted to improve my exception handler better than I have but will probably leave as is. FYI, on a similar note I have exception handling for text files/Linux files ending .SYS.

> So this has really nothing to do with DOS on x86.
Well interestingly it does contain the following string hence my initial confusion :) "Version 01.00 NUL: PRN: AUX: CON: CLOCK: MOUSE:"