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PCI phased out? (Announce)

posted by marcov, 15.02.2011, 18:43

> > Well, turns out there is no real hurry, since while the integrated GPU
> is
> > praised in all publications, it is still 5+ times slower than the
> cheapest
> > ati or nvidia card, and we are not terribly pricesensitive there.
>
> Really? I read that this GPU should compete with low level external VGA but
> didn't tested. But I prefer VGAs from nvidia bevause quite good drivers
> compared to intel where I had some problems before.
We do a lot of layered 2D work, and uploading is RDS. YMMV if you put more worth on shader performance.

> > Another big advantage of 64-bit is that the minimal CPU gets lifted to
> > something Pentium-D like. This simplifies compilers considerably. copro
> is
> > always integrated, ppro instructions (cmov) are, and SSE2 is always
> there
> > (and SSE3 too if you are not too strict)
>
> Understand. But it's similar effect when you write in specification that
> application's minimum system req. is P4D-x64 or e.g. PIII x86. It depends
> on you how much older CPU you want support.
True, but in the 64-bit case you don't get umpteen mails from all kinds of freaks that say they still have a type X-1 in some god forgotten corner (and of course they don't even explicitely say they actually want to run the software on the device, just that they "have" it)

> > For me it usually worked. My fairly new ATI 5770 worked fine with 4xxx
> > drivers.
>
> Hm, seems ATI is more compatible around it's architecture, you had a luck
> but it's not general rule.
Rule of thumb, if a new directx model that radically changes stuff is adopted, then you have to watch out. But there is only one such transition in recent time, DirectX9->10 which is indeed between Nvidia 7x and 8xxx

> > I haven't seen mini disks for sale in ages, and when I did they were
> more
> > expensive than white label DVDs. On 6GB there is room for a couple of
> MB
> > of drivers. Specially something that everybody has, like a screen.
>
> Here they are still available and cheap.
> http://www.alza.cz/SearchAdvanced.asp?EXPS=cd-r+8cm
> You can burn e.g. Tinycore or DSL on it.
Better use a stick and kill the moving parts. 2GB stick is Eur 5.

> From this:
> >> can use EFI for loading but who will rewrite DOS? This is
> >> what I call end of IBM PC compatible.
>
> >Thank god! :-)
>
>
> I interpreted that you are pleasured about kill all legacy inluding VESA,
> BIOS, etc.
Well, I'm a bit allergic to self-declared standards. Or standards that people interpret their own way. You might occasionally get a catty response that way.

> > I don't see why. It is still the current incarnation of this
> architecture.
> > That Dos stopped the evolving with it and clings to standards that are
> > slowly being phased out, is not the problem of the architecture.
>
> When BIOS will be dropped and replaced by EFI without comsaptability module
> it will affect not ONLY DOS but also all Windows up to XP, maybe Vista but
> they use same/similar loader like win7 which supports it.
Afaik 64-bit win Vista and win 7 support EFI, and 32-bit not. But here, nearly everything new is delivered with a 64-bit OS.

It can take another couple of years, or they can start switching to EFI in fall, nobody knows. Still a transition will take some time, so probably we are good for at least 2 years.

(at home I want 64-bit, at work we are dependant on certain 32-bit drivers and a 32-bit only compiler (damn you Borland/Embarcadero!))

> > Win9x has the same problem. Once the most popular platform on the
> planet,
> > nobody seems to mourn its demise. I haven't seen any usergroups
> springing
> > up that actively keep win9x alive.
>
> You're blind. There's live commuity on MSFN around Win98SE who e.g.
> backported USB 2.0 drivers from XP and even developing kernel NTAPI
> extension (kernelex) and also generic VESA driver was developed for those
> who are out of luck with too modern VGA absenting drives. I also did some
> minor fixes to INF files for support newer chipsets and succesfully make
> RAM limit solution for systems with >1G RAM to not crash (even there's
> better solution supporting up to near 4G but commercial).
Ok, I stand corrected then.

> > I don't know. Maybe you could base it on low power industrial x86 CPUs,
> > that generally have a long life. Not cheap, but heavy duty FPGA's are
> > probably more expensive.
>
> The problem of most industrial boards are that don't support SB compatible
> soundcard or it is some poor crap. Also BIOS on such board may have more
> incompatabilities...
Better than creating an own bios from start?

> > And so the Dos community waits for a saviour. Again :-)
>
> Hm, we both have full time job (I expect you too) so it's not so easy to
> put enough effort and time as I want. And you will agree that making such
> complex HW design is not a piece of cake (like for 8-bit computers).
The heavy Amiga's were more complex than early PCs. They are more or less 386s.

> Manufacturing and prototyping is expansive here much more than in china
> where is cheaper work and there are a lot of people that can spend some
> time on it.
That is only cheaper when you go to extreme volumes. And there is no reason why you can't order your prints in China. I know we did for a while.

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