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PCI phased out? (Announce)

posted by marcov, 16.02.2011, 10:36

> > True, but in the 64-bit case you don't get umpteen mails from all kinds
> of
> > freaks that say they still have a type X-1 in some god forgotten corner
> > (and of course they don't even explicitely say they actually want to
> run
> > the software on the device, just that they "have" it)
>
> Yes it's very comfortable from programmer's view but disliked from user
> view.

No. There are advantages for the user too, since he gets optimized binaries.

> Like putting a gun to head and say buy better HW or die.

Of course not. One can use old software ad infinitum.

> In extreme
> case user will got 0% performance gain, 2x memory consumption just because
> someone decided to use 64bit compiler even if it wouldn't use any new
> instruction.
Yes, and in other extreme cases it is twice as fast (as e.g. AES encryption). So what?

> > You might occasionally get a catty response that way.
>
> Yes I sometimes got them. But didn't expected it on DOS forum.
IMHO there are no taboos here.

> > (at home I want 64-bit, at work we are dependant on certain 32-bit
> drivers
> > and a 32-bit only compiler (damn you Borland/Embarcadero!))
>
> I also have to downgrade new machine at work to 32bit bacause of Orcad and
> Altium. So I have unused 4GB of memory there but don't care a lot because
> 32bit XP are less memory hungry (and used apps too) :). But it was decision
> of our IT that we need it :)
Well, I could run the 32bit app under windows 64bit if it were not for certain hardware drivers. But one of the crucial vendors has said he will publish 64-bit drivers this year, and the question will be if his 32-bit userland lib can interface 64-bit drivers. That would yield a nearly full 32-bit application space.

> > Better than creating an own bios from start?
>
> It depends... On 3rd party HW I don't have any docs, schematics, sources so
> it's hard to fix. If I would start my design I will know about all GPIO
> connections etc. and then can modify e.g. coreboot + seabios to fit.
If you really must emulate legacy busses like ISA like they were native it will be hard. From what I got from the Coreboot guys, the current super I/O chips are quite complex.

> > > complex HW design is not a piece of cake (like for 8-bit computers).
> >
> > The heavy Amiga's were more complex than early PCs. They are more or
> less
> > 386s.
>
> I was talking about 8-bit computers and Amiga was AFAIK based od 32-bit
> motorola 68000 later 68030,40,60... So it may be comparable to 486 PC.
40 is halfway between 486 and pentium. It is a DX/DX2 hybrid (some parts run on double speed, some not), and has a simple pipelining.

Multiple pipes multiple instructions per clock. 60 afaik is halfway between pentium and ppro (in philosophy, not in performance. It is a low clocked pentium in performance, and more)

> > That is only cheaper when you go to extreme volumes. And there is no
> reason
> > why you can't order your prints in China. I know we did for a while.
>
> Yes we also do. But for a single prototype it doesn't have any advantage.
IIRC while lower counts are possible, anything below 10 prints is nearly as expensive as 10 prints. And even with 10 prints the costs are significantly more than 25. We usually do 10 for "first" prints and 25 otherwise (since usually the basic parts will work, and only "new" functionality is at risk)

We have 4 layer SMD 100 pin device prints, but that is still several magnitudes less complex than a mainboard.

> But if someone in china will take it seriously and create something like
> dingoo gaming console it will be cheap. And I belive that DOS is more
> popular in china (China DOS Union, but because of language barrier we don't
> hear about them much often) than here so maybe someone will realize it :)
Popular and "used" are two different things. And I'm afraid it is the latter rather than the former.

As said, people only using their own old stuff don't contribute much to such efforts. The number of people still investing in Dos, that is the figure you are looking for as a base for such operations.

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